[pocket59]

Recently purchased The Grand. Started by reloading Winchester AA with no problems. Decided to try and reload, Federal Gun Club, Federal target, Estate and Rio. Before reloading I played around with depriming and resizing. None of the above shells would resize to the dimensions which would hold a primer. By hand, I could drop a primer in any of the hulls until fully seated, tip over and watch them drop out. I now the Rio is a bigger primer so no surprise there. NOW, I take all the hulls and run them through my MEC 600 Jr. resizer die. Now everyone of the hulls will accept the proper primer and even the Rio would accept and hold a standard primer.
I don't want to run all of my hulls through the MEC before loading the The Grand. Anyone else experience this and any solutions? Thanks every one!

 

[zzt]

Call RCBS and tell them your story. I've loaded on a Grand for decades and never had the problem you experience. I've reloaded Gold Metal, Fiocchi, AA, Gun Club and STS hulls with no sizing problems. It is entirely possible you got a bad sizing die. RCBS customer service is the best. They will make it right ASAP.

 

[pocket59]

Thanks! I have a call in, waiting on a call back. Talked to one person yesterday who said they never heard of the problem before. Referred me to a technician whom I am waitign on.

 

[Claypoppy]

If I understand your post correctly, you are expecting the resizing station to change the diameter of the "flash hole" where the primer is inserted into the shell, which is not the job of that station at all.

The resizing station is for bringing the OUTSIDE diameter of the shell base back to the correct diameter and has no effect on the "flash hole" size.

To load this junk, go to a bigger diameter primer such as Noble Sport primers (yuck).

Just another reason I only load Remington and AA hulls.

Good Luck and Good Shooting!

 

[pocket59]

I am not directly expecting the resizing to fix the diameter of the hole, but, as the outside is resized to the correct diameter, it will indirectly change the size of the primer pocket. Like I said, my MEC Jr does the job perfectly.

 

[Claypoppy]

I am not directly expecting the resizing to fix the diameter of the hole, but, as the outside is resized to the correct diameter, it will indirectly change the size of the primer pocket. Like I said, my MEC Jr does the job perfectly.

Say and do what you want, but you might consider what I'm telling you. I've been reloading shotgun shells for over 40+ years and am trying to help you with your problem.

You are not "fixing the problem" with what you are doing.

As I stated previously, the problem is that you are using the WRONG SIZED PRIMER for the hull you are trying to reload.

Good Luck and Good Shooting!

 

[pocket59]

I understand and appreciate your help and you bring up a point I did not mention. With the exception of Rio, I was using a Federal primer in the Federal hulls. If I understand correctly, even though they are Federal hulls and primers, for reloading, I would use the oversize Noble Sport primers?

 

[Claypoppy]

I understand and appreciate your help and you bring up a point I did not mention. With the exception of Rio, I was using a Federal primer in the Federal hulls. If I understand correctly, even though they are Federal hulls and primers, for reloading, I would use the oversize Noble Sport primers?

I can't answer that question for you as I am not familiar with the load data for those particular hulls.

You need to do some research and get reloading data for all of the different hulls/components you are using. ONLY USE PUBLISHED DATA WHEN RELOADING! With the internet, the type of info you are looking for is usually available with a little effort.

Do NOT just throw some components in a hull and expect everything to work out fine. This is very dangerous. Just because it goes "boom" when you pull the trigger doesn't mean you are doing things correctly.

I've said this many times before on this site, but in this instance I think it bears repeating....

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD!

Good Luck and Good Shooting!

 

[Rick Barker]

Take a micrometer and measure a spent primer, then measure the new primer. Not all primers are created equally, different brands have different measurements when compared to each other. As you can see from the chart below, Win primers have a smaller diameter, than Federal.

The only way I could understand using the MEC resizer to make that kind of difference is the bottom of the hull is bowed out ever so slightly after firing. If not adjusted properly the MEC will collapse the hull bottommand make it concave. If you are going to use steel based hulls, your Grand is not going to fix that problem. You could buy a MEC Super Sizer 77 and resize all you hulls in a separate session.

 

[pocket59]

Thanks Claypopy! I agree 100% with what you are sayign regarding reloading data. I always use data from a reliable source like the manufacture of the hull or powder.
Rick, you bring up a great point. I will check the hole from a hull resized with my MEC to check for out of round, which would then, "grip" the primer, but cause a condition I would not want. I would not use the hull under those conditions. I am not famaliar with the MEC Super Sizer 77, but wouldn't it concave the metal as well?

 

[Rick Barker]

Thanks Claypopy! I agree 100% with what you are sayign regarding reloading data. I always use data from a reliable source like the manufacture of the hull or powder.
Rick, you bring up a great point. I will check the hole from a hull resized with my MEC to check for out of round, which would then, "grip" the primer, but cause a condition I would not want. I would not use the hull under those conditions. I am not famaliar with the MEC Super Sizer 77, but wouldn't it concave the metal as well?

Not if the MEC 77 is properly adjusted. Re-read my post. I missed the point you are using the same primer on all brands. Look at the chart I added. Notice the diameter differences with the different brands. I always hold you should use the components designed for the hull.

 

[pocket59]

I agree Rick, I always follow recommended recipes from reliable sources.

 

[Rick Barker]

Good that we all follow recipients, but tend to mix primers, wads and hulls. I am saying try to use Federal primers and wads in Federal hulls for example, if at all possible.

 

[pocket59]

I agree. Thanks!

 

[gadahl]

Pocket:
I, too, have been using a new RCBS Grand and just last night started a session using once fired Federal plastic hulls with the white plastic internal base. These are not paper basewad hulls. I assumed, based on data in the Lyman manual, that I could reload these hulls and following an Alliant recipe using Red Dot powder and Remington Champion 209A primers, I started to reload. In the first five shells all the primersseemed loose, two of the shells dropped their primer as the shell moved into the first crimp station.
I thought, perhaps, the sizing die (station 1) was not adjusted to fully compress the bases of these hulls, and I carefully readjusted to drop the spent primer and resize the hull. As Claypoppy predicts above, resizing the outer dimension of the hull base did not change the primer flash hole dimension. Apparently these once fired rounds were previously loaded with a larger "european" style primer and my Rem 209A is simply soo small for the hole.
Have you come up with any option other than buying new european size primers to reload these Federal "Top Gun" hulls? Since they were probably going to be "one and done" throw away reloads anyway, I'm kind of at a loss? Any ideas?
GAD

 

[pocket59]

Right now I am waiting on the RCBS technician to call me. Once I have talked to the technician, I will review the status of the hulls I have run through my MEC 600Jr to determine the condition of the primer pocket. If any are deformed, the MEC 600 Jr solution is terminated. Not chancing injury to me or my gun. I will keep you up-to-date on my findings, conference with the technician, and my decision as to what to do with the hulss in question. Right now there are still too many variables to ponder.

 

[gadahl]

Please post your info from RCBS Tech Support. I have found them to be very helpful.
Last night, frustrated by the loose pocket holes in "Top Gun" hulls, I switched to Fed. Gold Medals and ran 100 shells with no problems.
Did Federal subcontract out these shells to Rio or some other manufacturing company?
GAD

 

[Octoberclaire2]

I've have loaded on An RCBS for years.Steel hulls by the thousands and Have never had any problems as you have mentioned. Federals and gun clubs, silver based estates. So I also would recommend touching base with RCBS, great customer service. I've only had a problem if a rogue empty that had been loaded with a rio , cheddite or some european primer then they will fall right out.

 

[Ajax]

In my area. The White box Estate and the Walmart value pack, with the plastic base wads, are made in France for Federal and do use a larger primer.

 

[jmac_cope]

Please keep in mind that not all Federal hulls are made by Federal and will hold Federal 209a primers. For example, the Federal Game and Field commonly purchased in 4 pack boxes at Walmart are made from hull that have been contracted out to Rio. These hulls will require the larger Rio primers to load properly
Listen to Claypoppy
John