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Well, I don't, lumper. There was a park to the south-east of the airport that Tom Acklin told me about, but it was never pursued because:

1) there was no indication we could get it.

2) the land was as vertical as it was horizontal


Cim and Pat will remember a presentation by the late airport director Blair Conrad of some land to the west, just beyond Dog Leg road. It was surrounded by housebuilding, was small, and would only have worked if we had been able to keep our own 57+ acres, (remember? We we leasing the rest of the land, with a one-year termination stipulation by either party.) but Blair made it clear that there was no assurance at all we could ever get the land. Beyond that single, official mention of the land, I remember nothing in Ohio.

With the 2.1 million we got for our land (and the $130,000 we saved on taxes on it by becoming a 501 (C) (3)) corporation we are getting investment income that gives us a little security.

Neil
 

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Neil is right.That is exactly what I remember also.I think maybe Pat is confused but I looked at that propert NW of the airport it was totally unacceptable just like every other proposal except Sparta.


Plus it reallt doesn't matter because the present home and future home of the ATA is at Sparta and will remain there for at least 10yrs.Be positive or just accept it that Sparta is the Home of the ATA!

CIM
 

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The home is where the office of the ATA is ... when is the office moving?

Sparta has to be cheaper to operate from than the current location and then the offices of the ATA would be where you say the ATA's home is or is there some actuall reason why the ATA will not fully support Sparta and truly make it there new home?
 

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The ATA has a very attractive lease with the airport - which now owns the buildings - for our offices projected until 2017. There's no reason to move at the present time.

Neil
 

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Not to beat a dead horse but the Amarillo deal was a heck of a deal. At 3500 foot elevation, the weather is a bit more bearable in the summer than in Sparta (and we have yet to experience Sparta in a wet year - that could be tough), wind is an issue but much less so in Aug than in the spring, right on a America's major east-west interstate with a lot of visibility, and 5 miles from a major airport served by four airlines. The money was not as much, but one would think that it would have cost much less (millions less) to do a Sparta type facility a lot closer to the city infrastructure, etc in the first place. The ATA would have had a home for decades to come in a gun friendly state near a city with an active economic development entity that hands out money like popsicles, and 2500+ hotel rooms w/n 10 miles or less. The Grand would have been awesome there, but it would have been a great home the other 50 weeks of the year. Just ask the American Quarter Horse Assn and others headquartered there. It may be too late for the Grand, but it's not to late to look at moving the HQ and HOF there - there's economic development money with which to do it.
 

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I just have to ask ... what was the original term of the lease? 10yrs? 20yrs?

If Sparta is the new home of the ATA why not truly make it the home of the ATA and move the offices and museum there as well. The median income of Sparta is far less than Vandalia, the average price of housing is far far less so that would also mean that commercial property is far far less in Sparta than Vandalia and owning is almost always better than just leasing so why not make Sparta truly the new home of the ATA and move there.

What is keeping the ATA in Ohio? Is there something back behind the wall or under the table that those on the other side are not allowed to know about?
 

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The ATA would end up in a tail spin if they tried to move the offices and total operation to the Sparta location, talk about being committed ... The Staff at the ATA offices are well trained and professional in the way they do business, even though they do make a few mistakes from time to time which just proves they are human also ... I would think the ATA keeping the same loyal employees in place for as long as possible would be the smartest business decision they could make for now ... There is no incentive or reason to move the Home Offices to Sparta and virtually start all over again, so whats the point in doing so ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...
 

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I'm sure we dont mean to beat the people at the ATA but let us all remember there are really no paid leadership at the ATA. There are all basicly elected volunteers who do there very best to service a very large group of people.

They do not deserve some of the abuse we are giving them but we must all understand that to devote and contribute there time is a sacrafice to them for our sport. If they were a paid and compensated full time board of directors running the ATA it would be a different story and the ATA would most likely own there own facility and offices at a better location than Sparta. We have what we have because that is what it is. We may not agree, we may not like it, we may not even want to support it but it is what it is and thats that.

Sparta is the new home of the ATA and we must learn to live with it or learn to move along cause there is nothing that can be done for many more years.
 

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"The Texas proposal did not get presented. I was not a strong supporter of the Texas site but I have a feeling that it was not fully investigated by the site committee.

Pat Ireland "

Thank's Pat, that says it all as far as I'm concerned.

Sparta is a wonderful facility and I intend to support it as long as possible -but --------------

unc
 

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Say what you will pro or con about Sparta as a shooting facility, but it's the home of the Grand for the next few years, NOT the home of the ATA. Now that the Grand is gone, there may be better locations for the HQ and the HOF than Vandalia, but moving the HQ and the HOF to Sparta would be a terrible mistake. That is, unless you would want the staff to work in obscurity and guarantee that no one would step foot in the HOF or visit HQ for 50 weeks out of the year.
 

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A map of the land "offered" to us near Vandalia was in the delegates room for some time. I did visit the site. We were told by an official of The City of Dayton that the land would be made available to us if it would work. The search committee, or at least one person from the committee and John Norris, informed the City that the site was unsuitable. In a technical sense, we rejected the site before it was offered.

Pat Ireland
 

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I never saw it in the delegates locker room.They did mention the land to the NW corner of the airport which I did look at with Tom Acklin when he was a V.P. The property was to narrow and suitable for a Trap Line plus it was only 57 acres which was not enough property.


I personally hope we move all of our stuff to Sparta.Why pay rent to the Airport for years to come.Im sure since we quit shooting there attendance has gone down dramatically there.

The future with the ATA is not Vandalia and should be moved to our present location.I know I will get beat up on this but this is my own opinion and everyone has one.

CIM
 

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CIM ... you are 100% correct. If the ATA wants the overall membership to accept Sparta as the new home of the ATA then sooner or later they will have no choice but to move but we must remember ... TS.com's representation to the ATA is minuscule to the overall ATA so scream all ya want but those screams are from just a few in a crowd of 1000's.

There are underlying reasons as to why the ATA will not move to Sparta and they are not because of some sweet 10yr lease on the space from the airport and because of well trained office staff.
 

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Suggest the ATA and the HOF move to St. Louis, a suburb of Sparta, pick-up a sponsorship from Budweiser which is headquartered there and promote trapshooting to the general public, many of whom might be exposed to the sport for the first time. Even if the HOF was located in a corner of a brewery in St. Louis, it would get more exposure than in Vandalia.

Now the only people who see the HOF displays are folks who have a flat tire in front of the building and come in to use the phone.
 

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Its a shame the hall of fame cant be moved so the young+old can relive old memories and make new ones for all to see. It was always a specical place to visit a shame so many may never see it again its not alaways about shooting but history Kevin Wunder
 

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Included in the contract with the IDNR is the option to buy a patch of land in the complex for the office and/or Hall of Fame to move to if we choose.

Neil
 

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Then its time we move it!With the number of shoots that are being held there now.Plus with the addition of skeet,trap,pistol and hosting camping events it would be awesome.

The HOF was always well attended at the Grand.It was alot of fun to go in and look around at all the stuff.

CIM
 

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Why can't the ATA manage it's business from Ohio? Seems like everytime I ask a question about service over the phone, someone from India or Pakistan tries to answer!!
 

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Remember the 5 P's. Proper planning prevents poor performance. If the ATA and the its BOS had practiced this we would not even had threads like this. If you think about any major purchase such as a car, house, land, a business, very few if any people, whip out thier checkbook and write a check. They leverage what they have financially, they get a loan or some investors to assist in the purchase.

For an organization such as the ATA to own or build a gunclub is the same thing. Owning a gunclub the size of Sparta for 2 - 3 shoots a year is not a smart business decision due to the return on the investment. You need a great deal more activity to support a complex of that magnitude.

I for one am glad that the ATA does not own a shooting facility because most shooters could not afford to shoot there due to the high cost it would require top operate and maintain it.
 
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