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Should the ATA Create a Super Senior Vetran Category?

  • YES

    Votes: 88 47.3%

  • NO

    Votes: 98 52.7%
  • Total voters
    186

Should the ATA create a new Category: "Super Senior Vet"

4079 Views 83 Replies 52 Participants Last post by  Mike0251, 
Border Bandit
It's been talked about for a long time and with the higher percentage of senior shooters populating our clubs and shoots, the time seems right. Please vote in the yes or no poll and share your thoughts. BTW, I'm 83 this summer and not able to participate in 200 target championship events any more. I think that such a classification might address some of these issues Thanks.
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B
You can win with so/so scores but with senior you must shoot top scores to win. JG will have 1 or 2 even maybe 3 or 4 but you have trophies. Ladies are also in small numbers but you have to have a trophy. Junior female shooters have learned to declare Lady as they are easier to beat than male juniors. Sub vet is a joke as is JG as is Lady II. Don’t give a break to those who built this sport but reward those JG and SV.

But watch out one of us 80+ shooters will pop a good score and beat your butt. I would like to see some of anti SS category shooters drag your butts to the line with some of the ailments the seniors have and shoot with.

300 targets today and 300 tomorrow and 300 next day and 300 next and 200 the last day. Not a sport for wimp.

Don
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J
BIGDON said:
You can win with so/so scores but with senior you must shoot top scores to win. JG will have 1 or 2 even maybe 3 or 4 but you have trophies. Ladies are also in small numbers but you have to have a trophy. Junior female shooters have learned to declare Lady as they are easier to beat than male juniors. Sub vet is a joke as is JG as is Lady II. Don’t give a break to those who built this sport but reward those JG and SV.

But watch out one of us 80+ shooters will pop a good score and beat your butt. I would like to see some of anti SS category shooters drag your butts to the line with some of the ailments the seniors have and shoot with.

300 targets today and 300 tomorrow and 300 next day and 300 next and 200 the last day. Not a sport for wimp.

Don
Click to expand...
I don’t think anyone meant any disrespect by not being behind a new category for super senior vets, I certainly didn’t. But- if there’s that many more senior vet shooters, there’s not really that much reason to make it more attractive to them, is there? I would think most of the 80+ year old shooters would rather see a trophy go to a kid than take one home for themselves, wouldn’t you agree? And- the ATA/local gun clubs in general are having a hard enough time as it is with shooter numbers- adding another category and more trophies wouldn’t be the answer to help that, either.
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Sportshot
I voted yes for the super seniors. And definitely dump the Junior Gold “joke” category

I know too many 75+ that still shoot, at least singles, and enjoy the recognition of winning ... they often give the trophy to their grandkids as an heirloom or momento

Ps/
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9point3
So depending on age, the gals would be able to sign up for 9 categories and the men 7
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CharlieAMA
Just so long as there are no tranny, non binary, and pronoun categories, I can live with what we have. We have a lot of categories. It is expensive to get buckles and trophies for all of them. Hell, you get a pin for showing up for a state shoot. I'm pretty cool with that!
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T
I think having a special category for people age 18 to 21 is crazy.

After 18 you are legally responsible for yourself.

In the eyes of the law, after 18 you are a big boy, why doesn't the ATA view it the same way.

Also, I think there are a lot of 55 year old folks that are still doing very well physically.

They aren't considered senior citizens yet, so societally we don't view them as special, why do we view them as special and give them a category in the ATA?

Maybe categories should be dumped all together and we should have a slight expansion of the classes.

Maybe add an E class? Or a class for people in their rookie year?
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5
0 - 18 JR
19 - 64 open
65 - 74 Vet
75 up Sr. Vet
All ladies 1 class
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vatrap
Border Bandit said:
It's been talked about for a long time and with the higher percentage of senior shooters populating our clubs and shoots, the time seems right. Please vote in the yes or no poll and share your thoughts. BTW, I'm 83 this summer and not able to participate in 200 target championship events any more. I think that such a classification might address some of these issues Thanks.
Click to expand...
What would it actually address? Championship singles are still going to be 200 target events.
It's not like suddenly there will be a 100 Super Vet Singles Championship event.

People constantly complain about trophies as it is, taking the same trophy money and instead of dividing it by 14 per event, it goes to 15 with the same number of entries.
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Rick Barker
Trapshooter1100 said:
I think having a special category for people age 18 to 21 is crazy.

After 18 you are legally responsible for yourself.

In the eyes of the law, after 18 you are a big boy, why doesn't the ATA view it the same way.

Also, I think there are a lot of 55 year old folks that are still doing very well physically.

They aren't considered senior citizens yet, so societally we don't view them as special, why do we view them as special and give them a category in the ATA?

Maybe categories should be dumped all together and we should have a slight expansion of the classes.

Maybe add an E class? Or a class for people in their rookie year?
Click to expand...

When I turned 55 and went to the emergency clinic for a cut hand, the person that checked me in said I was elderly according to the US government. I was crushed.
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T
Sorry to hear that Rick, but the person who check you in was misinformed. In the medical community, "older adults" are classified as 65 plus.
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The Canuck
Way too many categories to begin with already. As far as I'm concerned dump all the categories and just run with the classes. Add another class if necessary(E) for those slipping score due to age shooters.
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Rick Barker
Trapshooter1100 said:
Sorry to hear that Rick, but the person who check you in was misinformed. In the medical community, "older adults" are classified as 65 plus.
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There are a lot of misinformed people about it. If you look for description of elderly and senior on the internet, you will find descriptions of the terms with age brackets all over the place. I think a lot of it depends on your State of residence. This link says in Hawaii it is 55.


100 years ago, (1923) life expectancy of white men was 54.4 years. Black men was 45.5

www.seniorliving.org

1900-2000: Changes In Life Expectancy In The United States | SeniorLiving.org

Life expectancy in the U.S. changed drastically over the 100-year period from 1900 to 2000. Longer life expectancy comes with changes to our health as we age. Find out more about changes in health and health care needs as we get older to be proactive with your health. Life expectancy is...
www.seniorliving.org www.seniorliving.org

When I was child, anyone over 30 was elderly to me.
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JBrooks
Whatever you want the ATA to do, talk your delegate into making a motion at the annual meeting. That's the way it works. If you are serious, write out a case for it and email it to all the delegates so that they can decide or ask questions before the meeting.
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J
Unless the ATA eliminates a few of the needless categories they have now I don't think adding a new one is beneficial. Better to eliminate the Jr Gold, sub Vet and extend the Vet category to 75yrs then have Sr Vet from 75 onwards.
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P
Why not a category for "GIMPS" . Shooters who do not qualify for Chair Shooter but need to sit on a stool to shoot. Perhaps they could be combined with a category called "GIMPS and GEEZERS". jack m
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J
Border Bandit said:
It's been talked about for a long time and with the higher percentage of senior shooters populating our clubs and shoots, the time seems right. Please vote in the yes or no poll and share your thoughts. BTW, I'm 83 this summer and not able to participate in 200 target championship events any more. I think that such a classification might address some of these issues Thanks.
Click to expand...
Maybe they should name it the comatose class. I am well into it myself.
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L
Super Senior category should be 80 - I'm 86 and still plugging along. JMHO
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J
Justin L. said:
I don’t think anyone meant any disrespect by not being behind a new category for super senior vets, I certainly didn’t. But- if there’s that many more senior vet shooters, there’s not really that much reason to make it more attractive to them, is there? I would think most of the 80+ year old shooters would rather see a trophy go to a kid than take one home for themselves, wouldn’t you agree? And- the ATA/local gun clubs in general are having a hard enough time as it is with shooter numbers- adding another category and more trophies wouldn’t be the answer to help that, either.
Click to expand...
how about waiving the trophy fee for 80+ shooters that just want to compete? I have about 400 of them. Not need any more trophies but still want to compete. i am 83
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slide action
We have too many categories now. I never liked the idea of sub vet and sure as heck don't get that jr. Gold BS ! I'm a Sr. Vet and health issues have pretty much knocked me out of being competitive in that Category any more but ,I am not in favor of adding some super senior category. It has got to stop somewhere.
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V10
What is generally lost when the subject of categories comes up is just what the Rule Book says about them.

The only tournaments where all the categories (Open plus the nine special categories) are required to be recognized are those tournaments where ATA trophies and/or AA points are awarded. This amounts to about 100 tournaments each year.

All other tournaments can use a reduced category "listing", or even forego offering any categories at all.

And, in the case of the 100 or so "Point" shoots, not all events need to give trophies for all the categories. They can use the reduced listing for non-championship events, and even non-resident awards in Championship events.

The ATA donates championship trophies for residents in the state/provincial shoots and the ATA Zone shoots and these trophies cover all the categories. The Satellite Grand clubs also purchase ATA trophies which cover all the categories.

The "reduced listing" is in the Rule Book (Section IV, K, Note). For example, "Where there is no Sub-Junior trophy, Sub-Juniors will be included in the Junior category", and so on.

Now the question then should come up, "But what about AA points in the instance where the reduced listing is used?"

I'm glad you asked that.

In the case where no Sub-Junior trophy is offered and the Sub-Junior wins the "Junior" trophy the AA system would consider the trophy to be a Sub-Junior trophy and the Junior category to have had no trophy and points would be awarded in accordance with the rules for each instance. And vice versa; if a Junior wins then the Junior category would use the trophy table and the Sub-Junior points would be apportioned based on there being no trophy in the SJ category.

So, if shoot management wants to reduce their trophy costs there is a way to do that.
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