Assuming the gun is pointed correctly, the answer would be zero.

 

And just 15 more to go. I agree with Denny.

 

Yes, the work was done by Dr AC Jones and presented in his book "Sporting Shotgun Performance: Measurement, Analysis, Optimisation". You can miss a accurately pointed shot if your pattern density is too low. He determines an optimum pattern size and density that, for a specific pointing error, maximizes the probability of hitting the clay.

 

At 16 yards I would say there is no difference at all

 

I lose just as many targets with 1 1/8oz as I do with 1oz. So by shooting 1oz I waste less money and I can miss more targets than if I used 1 1/8oz. Also it doesn't make any difference if I use 7 1/2's or 8's.

 

OMG. 60 pellets makes no difference.

 

Then everybody should be shooting 3/4 oz, but that is not the case and big dog shooters shoot 1 1/8 why?

 

Free ammo maybe????

 

Seems like common sense that the more BB's you send out after the bird, the better chance you have of killing it.

 

For Me I use 1oz loads for practice early season and when I think I am noticing recoil. I never will use them in a ATA event. Why I noticed when practing I was not having any runs of 200 plus birds without a miss.
So there must be a difference in performance and after reading Neil Winston's report 1oz vs 1 1/8 oz, I know why I will be shooting 1 1/8oz.
For all of you that like 1oz loads and 7/8oz loads, I hope you play all the options.
Shoot what you like and Good Shooting and have a Great Season.

 

I know this isn't scientific but a friend of mine said his two ladies shot 1 oz loads one year, average dropped by 1%, and went back up 1% when they were using 1⅛ oz loads.
Based on this information, I will be using 2½ oz loads.

 

I am curious how you would do a statistical analysis of that. There are plenty of other variables that go into missing the target. It would be difficult to determine if the lack of 1/8 ounce of shot cost you the bird.

 

Because the pellet distribution are gaussian standard probability and statistical functions can be applied to determine the probability of hitting a target for a maximum pointing error.

 

lately ive started shooting 7/8oz loads, and that light load will flat vaporize a target. when i miss, its because something between the ears, not the load.

 

Why do the best trap shooters in the world shoot the heaviest payload that is legal?
John

 

Why do the best trap shooters in the world shoot the heaviest payload that is legal?
John

Because it is legal to do so. If they made 1 1/4 oz. legal, they would shoot those.

 

I shoot a full choke

The inches I give up by not using a more open choke will not make up the feet I am off when I miss! I have been told by people I have learned I can trust that the lighter the payload the tighter pattern it will shoot.

So if by chance the load choke combination has made a really dense 20inch pattern and I am pointing reliably into the proverbial moving 10 inch circle I have read about. That would explain the amazingly ground up targets myself and others are seeing with the light loads!

And at the end of the day I have less fatigue than being beaten up by those heavy loads!

 

It seems to me the only reason to shoot a heavier payload is to make a larger effective pattern.
An x is an x whether its ink balled or just broken.
I was surprised when I shot my 7/8 oz. patterns at 32 yards.
Using LM choke tubes in 2 different guns they were very compact.
That sparked my interest in asking the original question.

 

OMG. 60 pellets makes no difference.

It does because the pellet distribution is not uniform, it's random. The pattern needs to be overly dense in some areas to avoid holes that targets can slip through in other areas.

 

So, do the top flight shooters who always shoot 1 1/8 oz loads typically just shoot full chokes at 16 yard singles?

 

The one I took a lesson from did. Not for 1st shot of doubles, but for singles and handicap.

 

Free ammo maybe????

LOL, Probably the hard truth.

 

Then everybody should be shooting 3/4 oz, but that is not the case and big dog shooters shoot 1 1/8 why?

Why do the "big dogs" shoot 1 1/8 oz. loads ? Because 1 1/4 oz loads are not legal .
Everyone knows more is better .

 

Everyone knows more is better .

I always heard it was, "more would be better."

 

So, do the top flight shooters who always shoot 1 1/8 oz loads typically just shoot full chokes at 16 yard singles?

Maybe I look at it too simplistically. At the 16 yard line, I want the maximum number of pellets I can get in the 30" circle so that means premium, 1 1/8, #8's with a full choke. Most, if not all, AAA shooters I shoot with use 1 1/8 with a full choke.

 

At the 16 yard line, I want the maximum number of pellets I can get in the 30" circle so that means premium, 1 1/8, #8's with a full choke.

Thing is, most Full chokes give you a pattern that show a dense cluster in the center of the pattern and relatively fewer shot around the outer portion. This dense cluster in the center gives you little advantage since the center is adequately populated by shot anyway. Better to open the choke up a little (Mod? Imp Mod?) on the 16 yard line and move some of those center-clustered shot to the outer edges. That would give us mortal shooters a better chance of breaking a target when our point is off by a foot or a foot and a half.
For those of us who do shoot Modified from the 16, the extra shot in a 1 1/8oz load helps us "dense-up" our pattern's outer ring for those oh-so-satisfying-but-worth-no-more-than-a-chunk smokeballs even when we're off a tad.

 

Because the pellet distribution are gaussian standard probability and statistical functions can be applied to determine the probability of hitting a target for a maximum pointing error.

Gary,
I have read some research papers over the last couple of years that suggest patterns may not be a normal distribution with continuous probability. Any thoughts on that?

 

Dr Jones shot/analyzed about 2500 test patterns for the book. In addition to his own data he references the work of Journee, Lowry, Brindle, Johnson and Buck that also came to the same conclusion.

To be technically correct (and something I never knew), it's actually a Rayleigh distribution; a distribution that is Gaussian in both the horizontal and vertical positions.

A Gaussian distribution also means that the pattern density is about the same in the 12" - 15" distance from center for different chokes. More open chokes move pellets to the area where pellet density is too low to be of use.







j

 

I had something happened to me years ago that I have never forgot, my father was a big believer in 1 ounce loads and reloading , One of my brother-in-law's used to shoot with us and was a C class shooter, with my father's reloads, One day by mistake he picked up my new three dram AA's and broke 12 more birds than his highest score to that date. It might've just been his day or it might've been the shells, but I quit shooting 1 ounce and reloads that day .

 

I had something happened to me years ago that I have never forgot, my father was a big believer in 1 ounce loads and reloading , One of my brother-in-law's used to shoot with us and was a C class shooter, with my father's reloads, One day by mistake he picked up my new three dram AA's and broke 12 more birds than his highest score to that date. It might've just been his day or it might've been the shells, but I quit shooting 1 ounce and reloads that day .

Thank you!

Leaves more components for me.

 

Because the pellet distribution are gaussian standard probability and statistical functions can be applied to determine the probability of hitting a target for a maximum pointing error.

This is correct. You don't have to know all the variables, just the distribution of many shots. Think of the old Bell curve. Then, if you change one known variable, such as shot weight, and get a significant difference in the distribution, then you know the effect of that particular variable.

 

Gary,
I have read some research papers over the last couple of years that suggest patterns may not be a normal distribution with continuous probability. Any thoughts on that?

It can’t be continuous, the number of pellets is finite and discrete. That being said, the approximation is close enough. It also can’t really be normal because there is no chance of a pellet winding up an infinite distance from the center. Again, the approximation is plenty close enough to ignore that discrepancy. You might find a little better fit with some less common distribution, but not enough to matter.

 

I think the wad inside your shotshell has more to do with the patern then what you think . I shoot with guys and they shot with 3/4 oz loads and do very well . The speed of your "payload " is important as well. High speed from cheap AMO translats in bad pattern

 

The speed of your "payload " is important as well. High speed from cheap AMO translats in bad pattern

My experience is that speed is of little consequence. A Light Target load, at 1145fps, breaks targets from the 70 yard line (e.g. games) just as effectively as a 1275fps load does....as long as the payload weight is up there.