[Rick Barker]

There was a league shoot at a local trap club, one of the shooters in a team was accused of shooting factory nitro shells from the 16 yard line in doubles for his second shot, this club does not allow any thing more than 3 dram loads from the 16 because of tarps being damaged, a couple hours later that team was contacted by phone and said they had to give up 50 targets for a penalty, I think this was handled wrong, how can they prove it was that persons shell that was picked up off the ground with so many others, and who is to say it wasn't a reload, your thoughts

Remington Nitro Trap loads are 3 dram equivalent.

Don’t know if there is a Nitro Sporting Clays but a 3 dram trap load of 1-1/8 oz shot is limited to 1290 fps velocity and I think Nitros come in at 1235 fps, well under the SMMAI spec, 3 dram 1200-1290 FPS Max.

What is the club’s wording of their rules? Is it “3dram, 1200fps, or trap loads.” If “3 dram“ or “trap loads,” Nitros trap would be legal. If 1200 FPS is posted, then rule is what it is, Nitros could not be used.

 

[hbar314]

What's the policy on shell enforcement?

If they have a desire for something to happen, then it should be very clear how they are going to be checked.
Squad members have a look at each other shells? Scorekeeper have a look at shells as people walk to the line?
If there isn't a complete policy then you don't really know if the shells picked up where a certain persons or not.

Also, that's dram equivalent. Dram Equivalent speaks to the relative power a shotgun shell produces by equating its load to the velocity produced by an equivalent load in black powder.
Why are they worried about equating things to black powder loads?
This feels like someone make a guess at making a rule, didn't follow through with it, and then wants to apply damages.

 

[blackandgold]

Remington Nitro Trap loads are 3 dram equivalent. Don’t know if there is a Nitro Sporting Clays but a 3 dram trap load of 1-1/8 oz shot is limited to 1290 fps velocity and I think Nitros come in at 1235 fps, well under the SMMAI spec, 3 dram max of 1290.

There is a Nitro Sporting Clays and it is 1 1/8oz 1300fps. Nice soft shooting load.

 

[Tron]

If he can't follow the rules, ban him from shooting. It's that simple.

 

[Township Chief]

I wouldn’t shoot there. How do you enforce that club rule. Don’t like the rules don’t shoot there. Simple.

 

[blackandgold]

If he can't follow the rules, ban him from shooting. It's that simple.

If the ban doesn't work, try canceling him from shooting.

 

[blades31860]

I guess I should have been more clear 1200 fps or less, at 16 yard line, I just think this was handled wrong , I would have asked him for a couple shells at that time and if they were nitros 1235 I would have has there team some how prove to me even if they were reloads they weren't over 1200 with a chronograph

 

[slide action]

If it is not an ATA league They can make whatever ammo rule they wish

 

[bossbasl]

Instead of a ban for those shooting Rhino Roller loads, impose a penalty requiring only the use of .410 loads (2.5")!

 

[12GAK80]

And there are shooters shooting reloads that no one knows what they are shooting!

 

[visible chip]

My thought is the shooter should take it up with the club if he feels compelled to do so.

 

[JBrooks]

I want to know why a guy thinks he needs Nitro anything for the second shot of doubles? If he is shooting the second shot that late he better have that barrel set up 30/70.

 

[mg1polo]

And there are shooters shooting reloads that no one knows what they are shooting!

Likewise, there are shooters shooting Factory Ammunition that does not comply with the rules either. Case in point, there have been at least two Olympic shooter that were disqualified for using Factory Ammunition that did NOT comply with the rules regarding shot weight and/or speed.
How is this fair?

 

[mg1polo]

I want to know why a guy thinks he needs Nitro anything for the second shot of doubles? If he is shooting the second shot that late he better have that barrel set up 30/70.

I don't understand why and I do not, but there are quite a few AAA doubles shooters that do.
Possibly they know best, after all, they are AAA.

 

[Larry C.]

There was a league shoot at a local trap club, one of the shooters in a team was accused of shooting factory nitro shells from the 16 yard line in doubles for his second shot, this club does not allow any thing more than 3 dram loads from the 16 because of tarps being damaged, a couple hours later that team was contacted by phone and said they had to give up 50 targets for a penalty, I think this was handled wrong, how can they prove it was that persons shell that was picked up off the ground with so many others, and who is to say it wasn't a reload, your thoughts

I believe almost all factory skeet and trap loads max out at 3dr equivalent. A very good shooter I squad with routinely uses 1235 Nitro Golds for singles. I think it almost impossible to arbitrarily set a “dram” limit. It would be easier I would think to utilize a fps limit. Without a Chrony even this is unenforceable. Keep me mind most published loading specs (to my understanding) indicate projected fps with a 30” barrel and modified choke. If you ball park 10 fps for every inch of barrel and choke extension and then factor in a mull or extra full choke tube you may find that even 1150 fps factory loads could conceivably exceed 1200 fps with a Chrony.

 

[justbrakeit]

I would have liked to understand the test data that said the extra 35 feet per second was damaging to the tarp vs a 1200 fps load. I would be able to better understand a shot size limitation better, but maybe not even that. Was the rule written well before the 1235 loads were the norm? While I understand the rule is the rule and it shouldn't be broken I am just not quite understanding the logic or data behind it and would like to understand the thought behind it. While the rule should be respected I am not sure I get it.

 

[Larry C.]

I would have liked to understand the test data that said the extra 35 feet per second was damaging to the tarp vs a 1200 fps load. I would be able to better understand a shot size limitation better, but maybe not even that. Was the rule written well before the 1235 loads were the norm? While I understand the rule is the rule and it shouldn't be broken I am just not quite understanding the logic or data behind it and would like to understand the thought behind it. While the rule should be respected I am not sure I get it.

I concur with your supposition that shot size might be a more appropriate measure. I believe the Cardinal Center permits nothing larger than 7&1/2’s.

 

[Gsirmons01]

What is their problem with faster shells exactly? That it will damage the traps? I’ve shot a good bit of faster shells but I’ve never seen a club limit shells to 1200 fps or less

 

[broadway john]

I believe the Cardinal Center permits nothing larger than 7&1/2’s.

Neither does the ATA.