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My handle is based upon my entry into trapshooting. First as a darn good loader and then a darn good puller and scorer. Wit the Winchester machines of yesteryear, I can recall gently tapping a clay on the edge of the electric motor. It had a distinct sound if it was cracked somewhere, and that would get tossed rather than thrown and disrupting the harmony of the shoot. When loading doubles, I would make sure the targets were not only whole, but placed on the arm the same way each time for consistency. When pulling, I was able to pull, keep score, and call targets lost in a volume where there was no doubt the squad and individual shooter knew it was missed.
Now with the auto traps, there is less hands on, but now as for as the score keeps go...What happened to the idea of pride in your work. All they have to do is watch and keep score. However, I notice many do not call missed targets consistently, but they are certainly noted.
It is perhaps a personal flaw, but I'd rather not wonder if the scorer is on the ball or inept. As much as i want to concentrate on target, target, target... IT BECOMES AN UNNECESSARY Distraction if you have to wonder if the scorer is competent and on the ball. Yeah, some shooters miss the target and inexplicably glare at the scorekeeper, but that is their character flaw. Shooters can be really nice and polite or jerks, but the scorer needs to be the consistent one on the squad. Besides never missing what can be done?
 

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Simply realizing that the pressure on these kids (most are young) can be overwhelming at times - can and will go a long way to understanding their shortcomings. While I don't fully understand it, I believe it's a subconscious behavior some cannot help when making a loud gesture (calling a lost target) during a time of intense concentration. As scoring becomes more natural, so will their calling of lost targets. The trick is to get someone to stay in that seat for more than a couple weeks.
Recently we shot in some pretty heavy, driving snow and the score keep was having a hard time seeing pieces, we saw three in one round. When Bill turned back to check the sheet after our round I expected him to let her have it but instead said, "it's okay sweetie, we're having a hard time seeing them too".
I guarantee that went a million miles further than telling her she's blind.
 

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As in any job, even temp jobs, there are always some folks that are better than others. It has been a while since I shot registered, but I will say if my focus is on the scorer instead of the target, my mind is in the wrong place. Overall the vast majority of scorers are trying to do their best. As pointed out, gaining experience and having time in the scorers chair is the path to better scorers. I will also say the guys I usually shoot with help a scorer having a bad day by actually listening to the scorer and getting any errors corrected immediately. I have witnessed some of my squad mates offer encouragement and helpful scoring tips to the less experienced scorers.
 

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Well now it’s not always kids that are doing the scoring and the shooter is not always right. I’m a geezer but still have pretty good eyesight and I can guarantee that I am focused. I score some at my local club. I’ve had older shooters that swore they saw a tiny piece drift into the heavens and God forbid that you argue with them. I’ve also seen kids that would look my way, grin, shrug their shoulders and move on. That one lost target might have put them out of the money too. I think it comes down to the integrity of the shooter and the scorer. If they are on the same page before they start, that would be a big help. An idea that I have been exploring locally is to tell the squad it takes two people to change a score. I’m willing to change a score but only if two or more people agree that I was wrong. No let’s be clear here, I’m speaking of a small local shoot. The big ones I figure would be different and I have no experience there, so I can’t speak to that.
 

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Integrity is right! Hate to say it but I have seen that "two or more to change call" abused more than once on league night. But there is no point in arguing.
 

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“A dog is only as smart as it’s owner”

Quit blaming the kids and look at the clubs directors and the kids parents.

As a scorekeeper I do not see to many regulars jumping in to volunteer but are quick to pass judgment.
 

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Not to start a shit storm, but I think every shooter should try scoring. It would help educate shooters that have never scored, what scorers go through. It is not easy or fun in My opinion, and takes concentration, all the time. Trust Me, as I have scored and am just too prone to mistakes. Especially, on a fast squad of doubles shooters, with no ref.
 

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Everyone has had an opinion on scoring, and there have been several threads about this. Most of the time you see youth scoring is at ATA registered shoots along with the groups of traveling scorers/loaders. For ATA shoots, most of these young scorers are being paid $10./hour and given a lunch. Some clubs are better than others training these scorers. I believe the scorers ARE intimidated by the age of the shooters and some with their gruff voices. If I am squad leader, I ask the scorer to call out losses loud enough for the squad to hear, and most of the time that works. If there is any discrepancy I stop the squad until we have straightened everything out, then we shoot again. As Wad said be nice to these young scorers. They are the future of shooting. I just wish the ATA would have a course or plan to train scorers across the ATA system that ANY scorer would have to complete. In the age of computers, this could be done with "computer based training" and the scorer would be issued a certificate on completion. When I was an aircraft technician, we completed many courses for requalification on computers using pretty good graphics.
 

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Puller and Sandbager, welcome to the Forum. I have been shooting for over a decade and when I first started it bothered me that the scorer called out "lost" when I missed a bird. I know I missed it, you don't have to rub it in I thought. Then I realized he was doing it for my benefit. I have been at shoots where they call everything and some where they don't call anything. I think what needs to be established is the "Club Standard". Then train all that score, this is how it is done. I was also taught that whoever leads off on station one is the person to correct the scorer on a hit, chip, or miss. Othesr can comment but the lead is the decision maker. I have also found that most scorers are shooters or have shot so they know what is going on. If a scorer has never shot, the club should offer a time for all new scorers to come and shoot a round on them. Lend them a gun if needed. I am not sure about your clubs but we have a few younger shooters that are becoming good shooters that know and follow the rules. They even score from time to time. If we want new/younger shooters to join our ranks, let's teach them and not yell at them. Be an ambassador for your club and the sport.
 

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Our club has voice pulls so there is no scorer during non ATA events so no practice scoring before a ATA event. Most of the kids that show up to score our only ATA don't shoot, most of them are high school cheerleaders.
 

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Have you seen the latest printed programs that say “No verbal abuse will be directed/tolerated at the scorekeepers?” I like that!

Watching other people shoot trap is boring. Some score keepers are glued to the chair for a couple hours in the hot sun. I have watched some try to get s bite to each between sub events.

And one final thought, some longtime trapshooters are terrible at scorekeeping.

No need for hostility. It’s just a weekend sport.
 
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Cut the kids some slack. They are very part-timers in a game we have played every week for years. Except for the advantage we have these days with voice releases I can not imagine much has changed with scorers/loaders in last 10, 20, 50 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Everyone has had an opinion on scoring, and there have been several threads about this. Most of the time you see youth scoring is at ATA registered shoots along with the groups of traveling scorers/loaders. For ATA shoots, most of these young scorers are being paid $10./hour and given a lunch. Some clubs are better than others training these scorers. I believe the scorers ARE intimidated by the age of the shooters and some with their gruff voices. If I am squad leader, I ask the scorer to call out losses loud enough for the squad to hear, and most of the time that works. If there is any discrepancy I stop the squad until we have straightened everything out, then we shoot again. As Wad said be nice to these young scorers. They are the future of shooting. I just wish the ATA would have a course or plan to train scorers across the ATA system that ANY scorer would have to complete. In the age of computers, this could be done with "computer based training" and the scorer would be issued a certificate on completion. When I was an aircraft technician, we completed many courses for requalification on computers using pretty good graphics.
I believe it might have been easier before the automatic voice calls, the squad and puller could establish a rhythm. I believe I could make more money keeping score!
 

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If I am squad leader, I ask the scorer to call out losses loud enough for the squad to hear, and most of the time that works.
I couldn't agree more. I do, however, ask them to not sound gleeful when they call lost.:D
 

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I believe it might have been easier before the automatic voice calls, the squad and puller could establish a rhythm. I believe I could make more money keeping score!
Puller, I started shooting when the kids pulled & scored too, and they kinda controlled the rhythm how they pulled. I do like the voice callers when they are working correctly, the scorer really has to concentrate on the birds, especially with a good shooting squad with a rhythm. The scorers can't be checking their phones/ or texting with a quick squad (or any squad for that fact).
Welcome to the forum!
 

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I was also taught that whoever leads off on station one is the person to correct the scorer on a hit, chip, or miss. Othesr can comment but the lead is the decision maker.
Dive Coach, I believe the above is totally 100% incorrect for any type of registered Trapshooting I've ever heard of, and nothing like you mention is part of the official rules of ATA or PITA.
In fact, whenever anyone mentions this long-existing fallacy about the Squad Leader, I always ask them: "What happens when it's the Squad Leader's own target that's in dispute? How could the Squad Leader possibly be allowed to autonomously be the 'decision maker' on his own target?"
 
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