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Years ago I tried starting my kid with a 20ga 870 youth. She started crying after the 12th shot. Huh? Gimme that gun, let's see. I learned to hate that day, that SOB kicked the crap outta my kid and then me.

Saw a young man with it's twin today, I winced at every shot, rocked his head waaay back, even if he did get a 21.

Whats the worst gun you ever saw a kid use on the trap line?
 

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I've got kids on my team that share my Beretta 391 12 and 20. Those that were being beaten with the Remington and Mossberg 20 gauges are now having fun shooting 12 autos.

I think we only have three kids shooting pumps yet, the rest are autos.
 

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Baikal single shot 12ga (I think they tip the scales at around 6lb). Saw a kid shooting trap with one thursday night. It hurt me just watching him.
 

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The worst guns for women/girls and boys learning to shoot is a twenty gauge pump or break open as the recoil in twenty gauge is a very sharp snap unlike a twelve gauge which is more of a push when compared to one another. I've been told the sharp recoil from a twenty gauge is caused by the tall shot column and a smaller bore ratio. Regardless the cause most new shooters due better with a twelve gauge in terms of felt recoil. All the people I've introduced to clay target shooting have been with a twenty eight gauge or a cut down BT-99 and very, very light loads,
all of them enjoyed the experience.

The problem with men they think like men who see a twenty gauge being a smaller gauge so it must be a softer shooting gun than a twelve. it ain't so. If you want to loose a new shooter women or child quicker than a blink give them an uncomfortable shooting gun, that woould be a break open or pump twenty gauge.

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The only time a 20ga shines is when it's a gas gun like the LT-20 or 1187 20ga, both of which will cycle the light Mao Mart promo loads (7/8 oz 2.5 dram). This is lighter than what unmodified 12ga gas guns will cycle.

Had a Fudd come unglued on me for daring to suggest youths shoot a gas semi-auto. He clearly did not understand in trap they load one shell at a time, and that gas guns greatly reduce felt recoil.
 

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Years ago I bought one of those little 20 gauge youth 870's for my son to start shooting with. Big mistake, that thing has what looked like a recoil pad but was really a hard rubber butt plate and it bruised him up bad. I ended up getting a Kickezz pad and installing it which helped a lot but the gun was just too light to reduce the kick enough for it to be called a youth gun IMHO. Recently I started to load 3/4 oz. loads using 14.5 grs of Green dot powder instead of the standard 7/8 oz. loading and now have a usable youth gun that can be shot by starting shooters. The 3/4 oz. load and a good recoil pad is the answer to this light gun problem.
 

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For what it is worth, I wrote to the president of Remington and shamed him for not putting a decent recoil pad on this little gun as it was sure to be responsible for many young people to shy away from the shooting sports. I never received a reply to my letter, but then I didn't expect one, but I was hoping for a better pad from the factory, nada.
 

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Big misconception that a 20 ga. kicks less. The guns are usually just above the six pound mark, maybe seven. I thought my 20 ga. lightweight Browning Citori lightning, with 24" barrels would be a great Grouse gun. It is, but when you shoot it just for fun at trap, it beats the hell out of you. I guess you don't notice it as much when shooting at a Grouse, and I surely don't want to carry no eight pound gun for miles through the woods.
 

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It’s not the gun...but the combination:
You take a 6 lb. gun (or less), a shell that’s 1200 fps, and a 100 lb. kid (or less). I help coach our team and I see this often. These guns are not made for trap, and no one makes inexpensive 20g lighter loads. This can be hell on younger girls and small-framed 10, 11, 12 year old boys. For many families the expense of another gun, or an expensive Beretta auto is not an option. Many of these kids just have to tough it out until they get bigger.

First and easiest thing is to throw a kick-eez cheek pad on...that softer rap on the cheek helps and raises the pattern a little besides. We’ve also experimented with padding...an old mouse pad slipped into the vest costs nothing and works well. Sometimes you can open up the stitching and slip it right into the vest from the back.

When my boy was first learning, I hand loaded 5/8 oz 20ga loads until he was a little bigger. I used a piece or two of popcorn to take up space. Not really great for trap, but may be better than the alternatives.
The BEST thing I did for my son, back when he was 7 or 8, was to start him on a 28ga. I found a Partner break action in 28ga with the 12.5” pull. I dont’ think they make that one anymore, which is a shame. Light and little kick. Found a used reloader because of the expense of the shells. 410’s are hard to hit anything with for a youngster.

Good Luck.
 

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While there is nothing "wrong" with 870 express youth model itself , it has three very bad things going against it. First it is too light and secondly the so called recoil pad on it is about as effective as a piece of wood! A lot of the problem also stems from the lack of soft recoiling ammo. A lot of folks buy the "cheapie" mart promo loads and they kick like a mule! Number 3 is that not many try to made the stock fit them and most off the rack stocks punch kids in the face. I have seen kids use the gun effectively but ONLY after a decent recoil pad was installed, the stock was modified in some way and they were using reloads that didn't have the stiff recoil of most factory shells.
 
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I started my boys at a public range because they had youth model 20 gauge 1100s available for their use. Not only were the stocks correct, but they were light enough that the boys didn't resort to the bad stance many youth adopt to compensate for a too heavy gun. Recoil was fine.

One week the manager showed me a cute little 20 gauge Browning O/U youth model they just got. Lemme say is was very cute.....and light. My boys shot a couple of stations with it and seriously complained about the recoil. ???? Okay, I tried a couple. They were right. That was the hardest kicking target gun I ever shot. We went back to the 1100s and all was fine.
 

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When ever I see a cheap single barrel break open sold as a "youth model" because it is cheap, I know some kid is getting the snot kicked out of him. Sometimes a kid or two with the 4H would show up with one, and you know the kid is suffering. We had a kid show up with a single shot 16 gauge borrowed from his grand dad. The stock had drop like a 1700's kentucky long rifle. That thing was such a face slapper it knocked my shooting glasses ajar. No wonder the little guy was crying. Pretty hard to beat a semi auto.
 

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There are plenty of cheapie turkish 20ga autos that would fit the bill for a beginner youth shotgun. They are usually on the lighter side to begin w/ b/c of the alloy receiver. They are also ideal for super-short stocked guns b/c most of them lack an action spring tube in the stock.

If one of those companies came out with a 20ga w/ a 26" or 28" barrel w/ screw chokes, and a short stock with a soft recoil pad and a rudimentary adjustable pad/LOP and rudimentary adjustable comb in the $400-500 range they'd sell a boatload.

Fabarm, CG, and Blaser are all already selling women-specific guns specifically tailored, why isn't anybody doing the same with a beginner youth gun appropriate for clay targets? I think the marketing dept at most of these gun mfgs is completely tone-deaf to what the market wants.
 

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Hmmm.... So you say you didn't do your homework yesterday .... Ha get out there and shoot 50 targets with your 870 20 ga.

We won't have that problem anymore.
 

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Beretta has had the 391 RL parallel target and now the A400 out there for several years! Tailored to kids, small frames, and women! Check them out, fit, low recoil and reliability!
 

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I think you're looking at the wrong end of the mule. Part of the problem is the industry favors heavy loads. That makes finding light loads difficult.

The youth organizations should band together and push the ammo companies to make light youth loads available at a reasonable cost. This would make the ammo cheaper and available and would stop chasing kids away from a sport that thinks more is better. The shooting world has endorsed lighter loads. Maybe it's time to get on the boat and put lighter loads into the youth orgs, that you so drastically need to survive.

The youth should be taught that lighter loads will mean better shooting and scores for them.
 

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If you can find it ,the perfect gun in my opinion for a youth shooter or an adult shooter that is recoil sensitive is the old Browning BT-99+ with a one ounce load.
 

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CZ USA sells two 20 gauge Auto's , one @ $516.00 with 26" barrel and 14-1/2 LOP which would require the stock to be cut. The other gun @ $599.00 has a 24" barrel and an adjustable LOP from 12 to 14" . CZ also has a youth pump gun with 24" barrel @ $349.00 which I would pass because of recoil. These prices are MSRP and should lower on the street.

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o-p's question was what was the worst gun you saw being used on line.

stevens crack shot...bar none.
 
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