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I coached both Little League and Pony League and there is nothing wrong with either. As long as the emphasis is on teaching kids how to play ball. The problem with most kid sports is the parents and they just take the fun out of it with a win at all costs attitude. I have sent more than one parent home for being a pain in the butt. The deal is and should be either you go home or both of you (kid & parent) go. Never had a kid go and many went on to play High School and College ball. Ever seen a parent ream a kid out for missing a target, well I have and it took all my self control to keep from putting my foot someplace that would be uncomfortable.

Your problem may parental or a coach who has never won or played (shot) and this is his chance to be an all-star . See it al the time in High School sports, dads who were never was living through there kids ability.

There is an adult in the problem somewhere.

Don
 

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if i may ask one question, why didnt Tennessee and Kentucky pick their 5 best to challenge the ark boys?
Most of these teams are kids that have shot together on the SCTP and as stated above they have rules addressing "cherry picking" I would say coaches and these kids went there thinking that most other teams are constructed the same way. Unbeknownst to them they are not. This just drives a bigger wedge between the two programs IMO. I understand the OP complaint although it was not against the rules I still dislike the setup.
 

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The reason for this is that they take the five best shooters from the state(All Americans) and form their dream team.
At the National event is it possible to create an all star team from 5 different states and compete? It is specific for the State shoot, no trophies for mixed squads. I could not find anything for the AIM National Championship.


John
 

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Trap shooting like many sports is what's known as a gentlemen's sport and like many gentlemen's sports are goverened by unwritten rules along with written one's. Overtime integrity, honesty and respect has been thrown to the curb by a few who have none of these attributes tiilting the field in their favor causing more written rules to curb these cheater's, there is no other word for these people other than cheater's

Surfer
 

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This post doesn't deserve this response but here is the real story.... We "Arkansas" kidnapped each of these kids and brainwashed them to always shoot together. OMG! It's my pleasure to know these 5 kids. They became buddies years ago and have shot together! We didn't build anything, they did it themselves and shame on you for attempting to tarnish that. Like another poster said.... Problem with kid sports is parents..... Lead by example and teach your kids about practice and hard work like these Arkansas boys have done.
Respectfully,
Kurt Armstrong
 

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Another example of kids being pawns of adults who can't play fair.
Exactly.....
We see the same thing at our local county fairs. Parents buy a 10 to 20 thousand dollar show calf, put a refridgeration room in the barn so the calf will grow hair and "show" better.
The calf suffers in the heat at the fair but junior wins the show. What did the kids learn? How to cheat?
 

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Exactly.....
We see the same thing at our local county fairs. Parents buy a 10 to 20 thousand dollar show calf, put a refridgeration room in the barn so the calf will grow hair and "show" better.
The calf suffers in the heat at the fair but junior wins the show. What did the kids learn? How to cheat?
This post doesn't deserve this response but here is the real story.... We "Arkansas" kidnapped each of these kids and brainwashed them to always shoot together. OMG! It's my pleasure to know these 5 kids. They became buddies years ago and have shot together! We didn't build anything, they did it themselves and shame on you for attempting to tarnish that. Like another poster said.... Problem with kid sports is parents..... Lead by example and teach your kids about practice and hard work like these Arkansas boys have done.
Respectfully,
Kurt Armstrong
I'm not buying it. So, the hot shots became buddies. So what. What about all the all the teams that competed together all year? You just want to push them aside? I helped run the state SCTP championship at our club a couple years ago, and it was a joy seeing these young kids-some very good, some not so good, supporting each other and competing as a team.
 

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Good way to drive a bunch of the kids (and Adults) out of there if they feel they do not have a chance year after year by some taking advantage of a mistake (omission) in the rules to keep the playing field level ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
 

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I'm not buying it. So, the hot shots became buddies. So what. What about all the all the teams that competed together all year? You just want to push them aside? I helped run the state SCTP championship at our club a couple years ago, and it was a joy seeing these young kids-some very good, some not so good, supporting each other and competing as a team.
My name is Daniel and I'm part of the Arkansas squad y'all have been hating on. We were never cherry picked and we were not hot shots when we first started shooting we have been a team now for the past four years and we started competing last year at our state shoot. You can't say we shot as a team to win we shoot together because we're all best friends that love shooting.
 

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Daniel, you said you were a team for the last four years. What kind of team were you? School, club, church. Did you compete together in a league?
 

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My name is Noah White from the Arkansas Dream Team or whatever people call us. I don't really understand any of this honestly.. You guys want to bash us for doing what we do best which is break targets. We were never cherry picked in any kind of way. We've known each other for about 6 years and have been very good friends the whole time. We just decided about 4 years ago to shoot together and it worked out. We don't sand-bag in any kind of way whatsoever. We do not cheat or anything like that. We break targets. And for those saying the parents are the worst part of the sport, I'm sure most of you are parents. Thank you.
Respectfully,
Noah White.
 

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As usual ... there are people out there that stay awake nights ... worrying that some where, somehow ... some people are enjoying themselves!

When they finally hit on something, they go into a frenzy trying to stop it!
 

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Daniel, you said you were a team for the last four years. What kind of team were you? School, club, church. Did you compete together in a league?
Daniel, you said you were a team for the last four years. What kind of team were you? School, club, church. Did you compete together in a league?[
When I say that we are a team Im meaning we always shoot together everywhere we go. We are all from Arkansas and we've been shooting together for a long time now it doesn't say anything about you having to be from a church or school or league to shoot as a team. We're not cherry picked or do wesandbagg. We represent our state well and we are proud of that.
 

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I am not from Arkansas, but I have shot with members of the second place team for the past 3 to 4 months. Very fine boys and a pleasure to shoot with!

Were they "cherry picked"? I don't know. Two of them are first cousins, I believe. That sounds really suspicious! Maybe they are using gene screening to aid in the selection process.

What is the source of Arkansas team success?

I think you can find the answer here: http://www.agfc.com/education/pages/educationprogramsayssp.aspx

It is a link to the Arkansas Youth Shooting Sports Program.

Arkansas is a HUGE supporter of youth shooting. Arkansas Game and Fish has built first class shooting facilities all over the State. The largest example is the facility in Jacksonville. 14 trap fields!!!!!!!!!

Look at the winners list from the Grand and you will find many of the products of this program.

Personally, I am extremely proud of them!

Donny Sanders
 

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My cherry picking comment was solely directed at the practice as outlined in the SCTP manual. Since this is AIM/ATA, it does not apply. That does not mean the moniker does not fit, just that it is not against the rules. You all sound like great shooters and I am glad you enjoy the sport.

That said, SCTP teams run into other squads who are just as good as these boys and they are representing the same school. Many factors come into play such as school size, money and school support. In the end, it comes down to determination and shooting targets. If finances allow a group to shoot hundreds of targets a week, the group will be better shooters.

From the SCTP handbook:
“Cherry Picking”
  1. “Cherry Picking” individuals from within or from outside a state to form either a local team or a “State All -Star team” is strictly prohibited. “Cherry Picking” is putting together a group of “hot shots”, “all-stars” or a “paper Team” to compete at SCTP State or National Team Championships. This practice runs counter to the letter and the spirit of the SCTP and is expressly prohibited. ATHLETES AND/OR COACHES VIOLATING THIS RULE WILL BE SUSPENDED AND MAY BE REMOVED FROM THE PROGRAM!
 

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This post doesn't deserve this response but here is the real story.... We "Arkansas" kidnapped each of these kids and brainwashed them to always shoot together. OMG! It's my pleasure to know these 5 kids. They became buddies years ago and have shot together! We didn't build anything, they did it themselves and shame on you for attempting to tarnish that. Like another poster said.... Problem with kid sports is parents..... Lead by example and teach your kids about practice and hard work like these Arkansas boys have done.
Respectfully,
Kurt Armstrong
Thank you for standing up for them.
 

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FYI anyone that has shot the AIM Grand the last two years.

The last 2 years squads from Arkansas have won the overall junior team titles. The reason for this is that they take the five best shooters from the state(All Americans) and form their dream team. WE know this is legal because last year real school teams from Tennessee and Kentucky protested and it was denied. The AIM rules say nothing about the formation of these teams !!
Although legal is this ethical ??
Maybe AIM would take it seriously if each state only brought 5 shooters and cut their attendance by 2000 shooters that have no chance of winning the big prize.
And what good was ever to come of this? You (mom/dad) need to figure out how to get ones child and team shooting better. NOT figure out how to eliminate the competition or find a way to justify a lose.
 
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