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Discussion Starter #1
The news coverage of the Olympic site in Soshi is enlightening. The last several years we have been treated to Russian interference in everything from the 'Arab Spring' to what to do about Syria using Nerve gas. The news coverage would have us believe that Russia is some kingly dignified powerful country and deserves to be deferred to in world events. Instead we see a place where the plumbing is nasty. The water supply is nasty. The contractual venue construction is not possible to satisfy contracts. The place can't even come up with pillows for the beds. They have surveillance cameras in the bathrooms for crap's sake.

Should the world be afraid of Russia? Maybe. A blind, decrepit, wasted away, ineffectual Bear is a damn dangerous creature. In its death throes it can roll over anything in its path. It has very little in the way of real power left but the power it has is still great in that it holds the wells from which most of Europe gets Natural Gas. The extremely cold winter weather combined with a gas valve shut off has been used at least twice in the past few years to force compliance on dependent states. The chief opponent of 'Hydro-Fracturing' use in the United States is Russia. I don't even wonder why. I just wonder why the 'environmental weenies' and the demonrats are so hard alongside the Russians.


Don T
 

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In many ways the Russian infrastructure is not much difference from many of our decaying liberal urban utopias.

As for our commies chumming with their commies, weasels of a feather weasel together.
 

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Most of them aren't any different than we are, they don't like their current government either!!
 

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Don T,

The hydrofracking of the natural gas wells eventually pollutes the ground water in the area of the fracturing. That's why the liberals don't want it done. Russia doesn't want it done because the amount of gas that comes with the fracturing will eventually be enough that we can liquify it and ship it overseas and take some of their business. For them its about the dollar and for the liberals it's about the water. For the republicans it's about the dollar too. They can never get enough money and they don't give a damn what happens to the ground water in the years to come. That's my honest opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Opinion not supported with fact is quite, er, off. There has NEVER been a study that showed a hydrofracked well causing ground water pollution. There ahve been several wild claims that led to studies but the EPA NEVER substantiated any of those claims. There is natural gas coming to the surface all over the planet from naturally occuring fault formations. There is liquid petroleum coming to the surface all over the planet from naturally occuring fault formations. LeBrea Tar pits, Dead Sea, Pensylvania smamplands, every surfacing Coal seam on the planet. Hydraulic Fracturing has been standard practice since circa 1949. It only became controversial when the enviro weenies got agio-tasted by the commu-nuts and started screaming.

Better check your republican vs demonrat money grubbing figures. George Soros ain't a republican by any measure. He's a rich man. Nasty Pelosi ain't no republican, she's a rich woman. John ( SPIT) Kerry ain't no republican, he's a rich weasel. The list goes on, and on, and on, of rich democrat/socialist/progressive peckerwoods. Step back and open your eyes there dooood.

Don T
 

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Discussion Starter #6
http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/21/epa-fails-to-link-fracking-to-water-contamination-for-the-third-time/#!

EPA fails to link fracking to water contamination for the third time

Posted By Michael Bastasch On 12:07 PM 06/21/2013 In | No Comments


The Environmental Protection Agency announced that it is dropping its plans to issue a report on whether hydraulic fracturing caused groundwater contamination in Wyoming.

The agency said it will no longer have outside experts review that theory.

This marks the third time that the EPA has failed to link hydraulic fracturing — more commonly known as fracking — with groundwater contamination, a major environmentalist objection to the drilling practice.

“The EPA has been on a witch hunt to shut down hydraulic fracturing, but yet again the evidence has determined it is safe,” said Louisiana Republican Sen. David Vitter. “All too often we see the Agency using flawed science for political purposes, but this is EPA’s third strike on hydraulic fracturing. There has been such positive progress with hydraulic fracturing — clearly the brightest spot in our otherwise slumping economy – and I’m certainly pleased the EPA is stepping aside and allowing the state to once again take the lead.”

The EPA said that state officials will take the lead investigating further into a link between fracking and groundwater pollution around Pavillion, Wyoming, and look into ways to make sure people in the area have safe drinking water.

“We think this is the most pragmatic, quickest way to help the residents of Pavillion. We’re going to work hand in hand with the state to make sure this investigation moves forward,” said EPA spokesman Tom Reynolds.

The EPA’s announcement was welcome news to the oil and gas industry, which argues that fracking is a safe and proven drilling method.

“America needs to know EPA is employing appropriate scientific methods for its water quality testing,” said Erik Milito, group director of upstream and industry operations at the American Petroleum Council. “EPA has to do a better job because another fatally flawed water study could have a big impact on how the nation develops its massive energy resources.”

In 2011, the EPA released a non-peer reviewed report on Pavillion in which the agency publicly linked fracking and groundwater contamination for the first time. However, then EPA administrator Lisa Jackson stated at the time that there is “no proven case where the fracking process itself has affected water.”

The EPA has also found no link between fracking and groundwater contamination in Parker County, Texas and Dimock, Pennsylvania, which became a battleground in environmentalists’ campaign against fracking and was featured in the anti-fracking documentary “Gasland.”

“In the community of Dimock, Pennsylvania,” said Kate Sinding, an attorney at the National Resources Defense Council, “an aquifer was contaminated by bad drilling and fracking practices by a gas company — in addition to which there were a huge number of spills.”

Fracking involves injecting fluids into cracks in rock formations to widen them and allow more oil and gas to escape, increasing the amounts that can be recovered.

The EPA is currently working on another nationwide study on the effects of fracking on drinking water, which the agency said won’t be completed until 2016.

Members of Congress have been critical of the EPA’s Wyoming fracking study, arguing that the report was flawed. Lawmakers have also expressed doubts of the credibility of the agency’s nationwide fracking study.

“I have had major concerns about this report from the very beginning,” said Oklahoma Republican Sen. James Inhofe. “Using shoddy science to pursue an agenda that prevents America from responsibly using our own energy resources is unacceptable. These wrong-headed efforts to over regulate this important sector of our economy would mean lost jobs, lost revenues, and increased costs for every American family.”
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hydraulic Fracturing is not a new process. The concept dates as far back as the 1860s when nitroglycerin was used to enhance production from hard rock oil wells in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and other Appalachian states. A book published by the U.S. Geological Survey in 1910 cites use of the technique in 1903 by mining companies1.


Hydrofracking was first used by the natural gas industry in 1947, when the Stanolind Oil and Gas Corporation experimented with the technique in the Hugoton field in Kansas. The following year, the Haliburton Oil Well Cementing Company received a patent for the “hydrafrac” process which they first used in March 1949 on wells in Texas and Oklahoma2.


Since that time, the use of hydrofracking has increased dramatically. Today, thousands of natural gas wells use hydrofracking technology. The United States Energy Information Administration estimated that in 2009, shale gas made up 14% of the total U.S. natural gas supply and was expected to increase to 45% by 2035.3


The technology of hydrofracturing has also increased in complexity. Early wells were only a few hundred feet deep. Applications of the fracking technique consisted of using gelled crude oil and kerosene as the fluid injected into wells to force the fracturing. Screened river sand became popularly used as the “proppant,” or material used to hold open the fractures. Quantities of the materials used were small, consisting of approximately 750 gallons of fluid and 400 pounds of proppant2.


In comparison, today, Chesapeake Energy, a company active in the Marcellus Shale, reports that an average well is now 5,300 feet deep4. Drilling a typical well now uses between 65,000 and 600,000 gallons of water, and the ensuing fracking operation requires an average of 4.5 million gallons of fluids and hundreds of thousands of pounds of sand5.



Sources

1. Watson, T.L. Granites of the Southeastern United States. Pages 150-151. United States Geological Survey Bulletin 426. Washington, DC: United States Government Printing Office, 1910.


2. Montgomery, Carl T.; Smith, Michael B. (December 2010) “Hydraulic Fracturing: History of an Enduring Technology.” Journal of Petroleum Technology (Society of Petroleum Engineers) 62 (12): 26-32.


3. United States Energy Information Administration: Annual Energy Outlook 2011 With Projections to 2035. [Early Release Overview, December 16, 2010. Report Number DOE/EIA-0383ER(2011)]


4. Chesapeake Energy Company. 2011. Marcellus Shale Fact Sheet . Chesapeake Energy Company website. http://www.chk.com/Media/MarcellusMediaKits/Marcellus_Hydraulic_Fracturing_Fact_Sheet.pdf Accessed on March 14, 2011


5. Chesapeake Energy Company. 2011. Hydraulic Fracturing. Chesapeake Energy company website. http://www.hydraulicfracturing.com/WaterUsage/Pages/Information.aspx Accessed on March 14, 2011


So herein is some science to back up MY opinion that the enviroweenies are full of communist bullcrap.

Don T
 

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Flash Gordon, None of the crap you put up there comes close to being scientific fact. Here's the deal, when a hole is drilled into the rock and stone formations the drill bit is slightly larger than the pipe that is later put in the hole.There is a small area around that pipe where there is room for liquids to move to the path of least resistance. Those liquids, chemicals and saltwater that is pumped down in those holes does indeed help to force more gas out of the rock formations where the gas is trapped. they also move to the path of least resistance and that would be back up the surrounding space between the drilled hole and the standing pipe. That liquid will go to the least resistant area and pool. Case in point.

Several years ago in an oil field just west of St. Elmo, Illinois an experiment was done by the company who owned the field. They drilled all manor of holes and injected the saltwater that comes out of the pumped up oil back into the ground to force more oil out the old wells. I don't know how well that worked for them but water wells that were within five miles of that field went bad. The water is so salty they can't even use it on their gardens, for their animals and not for any use in the homes. I was at my tax ladys house , she lives in that area and I asked what was with all the digging and trenching and she informed me of all the farms in the area having to be put on city water. All their wells went bad and it was quite costly.

You are correct about this not being scientific. It's not scientific when your horses won't drink the water, it's not scientific when your garden dies when watered from a well that had been good for seventy years and it suddenly goes bad. It's not scientific when Haliburton gets legislation passed that says they don't have to release the information of what chemicals they inject in the wells to get the gas to come out. That wasn't scientific it's about liability when down the road this stuff finds a way to the surface and gets in the ground water. they want no liability for any reason. Just keep drinking the water, and taking the showers those companies would never do anything wrong to the environment chasing the dollar. I'm glad I live in an area where there are no gas wells being fracked. That's what I'm saying. Of course that's not scientific either.
 

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Fracking does cause groundwater contamination!!!
 

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Fracking does cause groundwater contamination!!
 

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And a third source that Fracking does cause groundwater contamination!!
 

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Dahaub, It was Dick Cheney that pushed the fracking legislation through Congress. He was Haliburton's point man in the White House. He did a disgustingly good job for them. They don't have to tell what is in the fracking fluid. They don't have to answer to the Clean Water Act.
 

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Johnny thanks for putting that point up for everyone to see. Everyone knew what the deal was at the time but Haliburtons excuse was that this was a trade secret and they didn't want to reveal what the chemicals were. Now in an article I read the other day benzene was listed as one of the components used. That stuff is a known carcinogen. That's just what we want to be put in a place to some day get in the water supply. The chase for a buck sometimes clouds the sight of otherwise very intelligent people.
 

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Dahaub, Benzene is being found in the well water around fracking locations. And yeah, ha, trade secrets. It is proprietary information. The fracking fluid is full of nasty chemicals and known carcinogens. When the locals sue, the cases are settled and the records sealed under a gag order.

They are polluting the whole country and on top of that, look at the price of propane.
 

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Johnny propane is a by product of the breakdown of crude oil. In one of the cooking processes propane is taken. It used to be burned off as something unusable now it is compressed and sold by the gallon. compressed natural gas is a whole different animal. The price of propane is in my opinion being controlled by the refineries. They haven't stopped processing crude and they still get the same amount of propane out of the process so why the supposed lack of it? I think they saw that folks will pay anything for gas and decided to get triple the price for propane with no consequences for the spike in price. I hope that every one of those folks who are being raped on the price of it go all electric. I know that rather than pay 1500 for 300 gallons of propane I will buy and have installed an electric water heater and do away with propane altogether. One of the gals who works with the step daughter just had her tank filled for 1900 dollars and that won't last her for two more months of this cold weather. Think the oil companies have to be called on it? These gals only make 12 per hour. You can't let your family freeze but this is absolutely crazy.
 

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Dahaub...you know squat about the petroleum industry. First lesson will be on running casing in a well bore. The annular space between the well bore and the casing is cemented. No fluids migrate in this space. After the cement sets, the casing and cemented annulus are perforated in the producing interval with shaped charges installed in a perforating "gun" that is run on wire line. Again, no fluid can enter the cemented annular space.

Lesson 2. Propane is produced by fractionating natural gas. It is not produced by cooking? crude oil. Propane is not compressed natural gas, and it is not a byproduct of oil refining.

I work in the industry. Do a little homework before you spout off about things that you know little about
 

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22hornet, question, since you work in the industry. Start with this quote from above:

<i>"In comparison, today, Chesapeake Energy, a company active in the Marcellus Shale, reports that an average well is now 5,300 feet deep4. Drilling a typical well now uses between 65,000 and 600,000 gallons of water, and the ensuing fracking operation requires an average of 4.5 million gallons of fluids and hundreds of thousands of pounds of sand5."</i>

The average depth cited above is 5,300 feet.

I found a statistic that says the average water well is 100 feet deep.

How is the water table at 100 feet being contaminated by a process taking place nearly a mile beneath it?
 

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In theory, it can't, Brian. Two totally different geologic formations.The producing interval is isolated from the aquifer. I read the reports that likes-to-shoot linked for us, and they are inconclusive. Some methane and benzene occur naturally.

We have been hydraulic fracturing in California for 35 years that I know of, probably longer. A lot of our formations are unconsolidated sands and diatomite. No aquifer contamination as far as I know.

Although I work in the industry, I am not a blind shill. The oil industry had a bad track record in the past, and it was troublesome to me.I love the outdoors and nature as much as the next person. I think we have been working hard in the last 20 years to turn things around. Safety was a joke when I started working on drilling rigs 35 years ago, and I have the arthritis to prove it. I think fracking is an important tool.The Bakken Shale in the Dakotas, the Marcellus shale in the East, and the Monterey Shale here in California hold huge energy potential. We are close to energy independence in our Republic, if we don't screw it up.
 
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