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Thanks, MG1Polo. So, what constriction would I need to get full performance (duck/goose hunting)? Thanks.
Mod max. I wouldn't hesitate using IC for a minute. If I may make a suggestion, I know those shells are very expensive, but shoot a pattern PAPER at whatever distance you normally shoot ducks at with both chokes. Pick the one that performs the best at that distance.
Good Luck,
MG
 

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The orgional Remington HD is the best factory shotgun shell I have ever used in the field. I still have about 7-9 boxes left I use when I am hunting nontoxic ares for late season Mallards or Pheasants.
Other factory nontoxic loads I have used Bismuth, Federal tungsten, Kent tungsten matrix, Hevi Shot.
The 12ga Remington HD 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 oz with 6 shot was a excellent load for both Mallards and Pheasants.
The Remington HD in 12ga 3 inch Mag in 2 shot was great on Greater Canada Geese.
 

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I used the federal tungsten like MG said IC in a Browning 3" O/U almost always BB's would pass right thru a Canada goose normally breaking bones. All shots were 30 yards or less over decoys. For ducks I liked Bismuth better, feeling it transferred more energy like the old lead shells we used in the old days. I shot # 2 both barrels for geese, #4 both shots for ducks
 

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The original tungsten-based loads used Hevi-Shot; lots of sizes in each load. It looked like welding slag but patterned well and had a ton of energy over steel and even lead.

After Hevi-Shot went on their own (after we MADE the market for them) we developed the Wingmaster HD shot. All true to size, all perfectly round and the BEST shot ever produced in any shell to this day. Nothing since was as dense or as round as WMHD.

Cost was not too bad the first year or two, but when tungsten went to $15 a pound, the per-round cost went to over $3.50 each and hunters weren't willing to pay that much. It was a great product.

The current re-introduction sounds like it is similar, but I don't know how it is being made today. With the density being lower, there has to be some difference. I have not had any to test, yet.

Scott Hanes
 

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Any shell with Tungsten in it is going to cost you . I still have some of the old Remington/ Hevi-Shot shells that nitro27man is talking about They hit like sledge hammer. I use them on Geese and Mallards over big water but, close in in timber I still use steel . Looking forward to trying the HD loads .
 

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At 11.6gcc they really aren’t much different than lead. Weren’t the early ones 12 to 13gcc in weight? I’d sure choose them over steel!!!!
 

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Just curious, does tungsten pattern similar to lead? Thanks.
Here are some of my pattern numbers with the older 20ga 3" Rem Wingmaster HD load to give you an idea of how they patterned with various chokes. Not sure how the new loads will pattern, but I'm guessing they will be good. I've shot ducks, pheasants and turkeys with this 20ga load and fortunately I still have a fair number of 20ga and 12ga Wingmaster HD loads in my closet!

Pattern results from a 20-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

20 GA 3" REMINGTON WINGMASTER HD TUNGSTEN LOAD
1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets, 12g/cc) @ 1300 fps
30 YARDS

Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – CYL / pattern 131 (62%)
Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – SK / pattern 163 (77%)
Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – IC / pattern 198 (93%)
Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – M / pattern 202 (95%)

40 YARDS
Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – M / pattern 164 (77%)
Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – IM / pattern 173 (82%)
Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – LF / pattern 174 (82%)
Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – F / pattern 172 (81%)
Rem Wingmaster 3" 1 1/8 oz #6 tungsten (212 pellets) – XF / pattern 186 (88%)

Hope this helps, good luck!
 

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The density of Hevi-Shot and Wingmaster HD were the same at 12.0 grams/cc.

The advantage with WMHD is the round pellets of consistent density and exact sizing, resulting in denser patterns and more energy than lead (10.9 gr/cc) and steel (7.8 gr/cc).
Another advantage was that WMHD responded to choke better than HS; more like lead does. One could choke more open [as Joe Hunter noted above] or tighter. In the energy feature, one could step down 3 shot sizes and increase pattern density and energy at high levels.
H-S consisted of Tungsten-Iron; Wingmaster HD was Tungsten-Bronze-Iron. The bronze added the 'softness' of steel versus H-S, therefore the better reaction to chokes.
I have never seen anything that would kill at such extended ranges on waterfowl. In my role at the time, I was in charge of the introduction of this amazing product for the marketing department. It was a fun time.

Scott Hanes
 

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Choke I use Rem Imp and a Briley .015 which I use a lot with steel shot.
Some time I load my first two shots with Remington Nitro Steel and the third shot with a Remngton HD.
When a Mallard has his feet down he is not very hard to kill coming into the decoys, that's why Steel shot for the first two shots.
 

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I have about 30 boxes of the original Remington Heavy shot and have no need for it , I mainly shoot a 10 Ga when I chase migratory birds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I have about 30 boxes of the original Remington Heavy shot and have no need for it , I mainly shoot a 10 Ga when I chase migratory birds.
20 ga and 12ga loads with 12g/cc shot will out perform 10 ga loads with steel shot by a long ways.

Energy is not what kills birds and animals with shotgun pellets, penetration is what is needed to kill birds and animals. Many of the steel shot pellets have lots of energy but since they are very light for their large diameter they don't penetrate very deep.

From KPY shoshell Ballistics.
10 ga 1-1/2 oz load of steel #2 shot at 1500 fps gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 47.7 yards with 3.34 lbs of energy at 47.7 yards and has about 185 steel #2 pellets per shell.
20 ga 1 oz load of Rem HD 12g/cc #6 shot at 1300 fps gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 55.6 yards with 1.61 lbs of energy at 55.6 yards and has about 206 Rem HD #6 pellets per shell.
28 ga 3/4 oz load of TSS 18g/cc #9 shot at 1250 fps gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 66.5 yards with 0.78 lbs of energy at 66.5 yards and has about 268 TSS #9 pellets per shell.

1500 fps steel #2 shot needs 3.34 lbs energy to penetrate 1.50" into 20% gel.
1300 fps Rem HD #6 shot needs 1.61 lbs energy to penetrate 1.50" into 20% gel.
1250 fps TSS #9 shot needs 0.78 lbs energy to penetrate 1.50" into 20% gel.
 

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I as well still have over a case of the original Remington Hevi-Shot from 3-1/2" BBs down to 2-3/4" 7-1/2s. I have taken honkers farther than l will say with a IM in either 20ga or my 12ga with clients. It will flat roll a coyote in 2s or BBs like you are shooting lead or buckshot. Have shot the 7-1/2s at late mallards and puffed em like a dove!!
 
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