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These two came from last weekends shoot. Factory STS 410s. First and second pierced "STS" primer I've ever seen before. Starting to resemble to the lower quality primers used in their Gun Club and Game Load hulls (which I refuse to use because they destroy firing pins).

My guess is the STS primer of a couple years ago no longer exists, and is being quietly replaced with something foreign-sourced (the Gun Club 20ga primers, and Field Load primers resemble differently colored Cheddites) to Remington's specs for color and content.

No way to prove my suspicions, but like I said, first time I've seen pierced STS primers.

It should also serve to give pause to those buying STS shells and STS primers, esp if pierced primers is a concern for them as it is for me. I don't shoot factory shells much, but if I run out of my 20ga handloads, STS 20s are my second shell of choice (if only for the hulls), with Estate/Top Gun running a close 3rd. Based on these hulls, STS shells are now going to be a choice of last resort for me based on my experiences with their pieced Gun Club primers (which rendered a brand new set of Kolar firing pins unusable in one flat of shells).
 

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and people criticized me for blowing the whistle on europe sneeking in and taking the entire american shooting industry over.
bring back the days where remington made guns, ammo, and targets and where winchester made guns and ammo proudly in america.....using american powder and componants, i say.
we're being force fed crap and being told to like it.
 

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You caused it with over paid under performing union labor driving costs beyond what your were and are willing to pay, can't have it both ways...............

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I had a couple of cases of Remington 410s like that when they still packed ammo 20 boxes to a case. Remington exchanged them. Easier then simply because Remington had pros at many of the big shoots.
 

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'07 Kolar Max TA 3bbl set, Jeff Mainland fitted
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Last year at Sparta I was talking to their tech rep about some primer issues, and he said they do not sell the same primers for reloading that they use in ST & Nitro shells.
 
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Border Bandit - Thank you for reminding me. When I turned in those cases for exchange at the World Shoot one of the managers of the ammo division was there. He told me Remington makes several primers for their use but only sell one of them to reloaders.
 

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'07 Kolar Max TA 3bbl set, Jeff Mainland fitted
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About three years ago when I started experiencing cold weather ignition issues with certain powders, I switched to Winchester primers in my STS/Nitro hulls, and the problem went away. BTW, don't bother looking at the Remington data in the Alliant reloading guide, if you're using Winchester primes in Remington hulls. Just go to the Winchester primer/hull section and use that data.

best... mike
 

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Complaining about Europe taking over the American gun industry while we shoot Perazzi's, Kreighoff's, Beretta's, Blazer's and CG's....interesting....
Yeah. And, meanwhile, we use price as our basis for purchasing shells.
Most of us buy airline tickets based on price alone. Then, we complain that flying today is like riding in a cattle car. Go figure. What did you expect?
 

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American manufacturers continually face the same issues how to maintian target price in the retail market and make a profit. Manufacturers struggle to contain costs to meet quality and price levels and are constantly looking at methods and materials to meet these goals Often times what looks good on paper doesn't pan out and those companies have to step back and regroup and look at other avenues to meet their goals. Just look at the automotive industry and the number of recalls due to product failure. It's a fine line between quality, costs and profits. Remington seems to be struggling with this cost/quality/profit dilemma and should sort it out, just another chapter in life.

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Lets see here, First I have to pay about .50 cents more for a box for Remington STS shells!!! I can no longer get a 2 dollar off rebate from Remington!!! I can no longer find primers, and if I do they are 30% more than Win.!!! Now there factory primers in both there Economy line and premium line are burning up firing pins!!! I predict a large VOID in the target shell world real soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess that answers the question of why Rio is "Building A Factory Here Now"!!! Instead of just assembling there ammo here!!!

Boy I'm glad I have stayed with Win. AA's all this time. break em all. Jeff
 

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The major problem is that Americans will not support American manufacturing, haven't and will not since after WW2. Price is always the primary issue. Trap shooters will drive clear across town to save a quarter on a bag of shot. Why do you think Walmart is what it is? Remington and Winchester have not produced quality firearms for decades. Higher end trap guns don't count as neither Winchester nor Remington nor any other US manufacturer has produced one in a very long time, with the exception of a few makers, i.e. Lujtic, etc . that produce in very small numbers.

The big three auto makers used to control the entire auto market, now it is about 45% and declining, annually. Like everything else, US manufacturing is being killed by foreign competition. Go to any home construction site and try to find anyone that can speak English. How about roofers, bricklayers, highway construction, landscapers, etc. Doing jobs that Americans won't do, at least for nine or ten dollars per hour they won't.

A few years ago I had never heard of Rio shot shells, now it seems that everyone is shooting them. Only one reason for this, money. It's cheaper to shoot a Rio, etc. and throw it in the dumpster than it is to buy and reload Winchester or Remington. In my mind there is no doubt that the major US manufactures produce a better quality shell but the bottom line is price and that won't change.

Jeff
 

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Lot of factors driving the train. Pressure from foreign companies is certainly one of them. Regardless of what Obozo and the talking heads say,the economy is in the tank and has been for awhile. The average family income has shrunk by nearly $4,000.00 per year. The life's blood of Trap Shooting is still Joe and Jane average (the working class) . Four Grand a year is big ding in the family pocket book and people do what they can to keep shooting if they want to stay in the game. If they can reload and save a little they will but, reloading isn't paying the dividend now unless there is more than one family member shooting and people are loading in volume. I used to save over 2 bucks a box reloading but, now that savings is half of that.Right now the bargain shells can be bought for 3 bucks a box less than premium US shells. The really "quality" difference is in the hull itself and with reloading on the decline ,that factor doesn't weigh as much. American companies have streamlined to cut cost but, unfortunately they haven't helped themselves in some areas. First the quality control in most companies has not been a priority. Also they tend to get rid of "The Old Guys" with the marketing experience and replace them with younger business degree, bean counter types , many with no clue, no experience, a snooty attitude, and in many cases,the customer service skills of a BABOON! Remington shells used to rule the Roost at the Grand. Now with only Winchester offering rebates and the flood of foreign shells they aren't (and won't be) the top seller. If it weren't for the fact their STS hulls is by far the BEST for reloading ,they wouldn't be doing as well as they are. Another factor is many if not most American companies (especially in the shooting industry) are really owned by foreign "investors" who care about a dollar "NOW" and nothing else! Many are not Pro Gun and only care that in the "moment" they see the shooting industry as a cash cow and NOTHING more! When I go to the Grand this year I will be shooting my trusty reloads for singles and doubles. For the Handicap events, I won't be shooting Remington but, I will be shooting "American made" shells although a great many wont be. As my Kid Brother always says "That's just life in the Big city"!
 
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