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Smaller diameter. The last ammo to use them was the Remington green "Express" load and some 3 inch 20 guage.

If you have a single stage loader you can mash 209 size into the 57/157 size cases, but with all the empty hulls available now it's wasted effort.

HM
 

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Get out your calipers. I never saw any primers labeled 69* so I can't say.

57/157 were small. Remington had 97* and 97-410 which were 209 size.

Reference me on the 69* deal, so I can expand my knowledge.

HM
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I thought 69* were the small primers. I read that they also had a 57*, and seem to remember them....but I don't remember much about them.

Regarding the 97*, I've read are the same ballistically as the 209P and 209STS, except the 97* had an open flash-hole.

So this brings up another question. What was the primer used in Blue Peters Target Loads, i.e. the load the followed the Blue Magics and were advertised has having a "new hotter primer". That primer was called a 209something, but I can't remember what. Some claimed it was hotter simply because it was just a Federal 209 dressed like a Remington, and supplied to Remington by Federal.

Which brings up the 209T. Wasn't that the Federal primer for the Champion II hull?
 

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They are colder than most, the 4 suffix intends them for .410 use. They might be desirable for muzzleloaders, too.

HM
 

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mrskeet410;

The Federal Champion II used a 12C2 (two piece black base) wad and a Federal 399 primer. That's not a typo it's 399. The 399 was milder than the Fed 209 more like the WW 209.

The 12C1 was a straight wad used in the Federal Paper. The 12C2 had a tapered length for the inside taper of the Champion II.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you mkstephen. If the Champion II used used the Federal 399, was the 209T the Remington Primer they made for blue Peters Target Load?
 

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Remington would not use federal primers.

I think the 209T was so named to distinguish it from the 209A which was quite hot. The T stood for Target.

The 209A seems to have disappeared, and I only see regular 209 out there. Of course, I could be wrong, I use Fiocchi and Remmy primers.

HM
 

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Ok the Rem 57 was the old small primer then they had a 69 that was larger most was used in the 20 28 and 410 till about 12 years ago then they went to the 209 size . A 209 can be forced in a 69 pocket[not a good idea] there is NO way you will get a 209 in a 57 pocket. All the old rem/peters paper were 57 the first plactic Power Piston were also The 209 is .242 the 69 is about .219 the 57 around .210?
 
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