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Discussion Starter #1
I've got a wide face, and it's not unusual for me to have to move my adjustable combs to the extreme right to get my right eye down the center of the rib and the beads neatly stacked. Unfortunately, with my new Rem 1100 Comp Synth, even with the comb snugged to the far right and a perfect figure 8 of the beads, the gun patterns about 65/35 favoring left of center.

I'm getting this same left shift with the full, modified, light modified and IC chokes. I shot four separate 4-shot patterning sheets per choke at 16 yards. The left shift was very obvious and consistent.

I then outlined my cheek weld area on the comb and shaved about 1/16" of material off to get my face even further to the right. After doing this, the pattern did begin to shift right, but now of course the beads are offset.

I'm wondering if I should just remove the mid bead and keep trimming the comb until the pattern comes fully center.

And for whatever its worth, I adjusted the comb so the gun would shoot about 70 above and 30 below. And that ratio remained intact across all my patterning shots. So, no troubles at all vertically.

All insights, experience, and educated opinions would be appreciated regarding this situation.

Thanks!
 

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If you have not already done so,shoot off a rest.Also,you might have a friend shoot it.If it is without a doubt a barrel problem,it wouldn't hurt to call Remington.You won't their opinion if you don't try.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the quick response. I will definitely try patterning off a rest. I guess if the gun shoots nice and straight off the rest, then it's all on me. That will be weird because I've never owned a shotgun (be it semi or o/u) that I couldn't shoot straight unsupported. So, if it turns out that this gun is one I can't reliably control, I guess I'll have to dump it. And if it turns out that the barrel was bent at birth, well, that will be first, too!
 

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If you're canting the gun counter-clockwise which is very common, a 70/30 POI would also shoot to the left. This is why you see so many pads twisted clockwise on trap guns. See if your gun stock is absolutely perpendicular to the ground when you shoot. Also a gun shot at a stationary target will tend to shoot to the left by a right handed shooter due to recoil. The best way to determine if your gun is shooting right or left is to lock down the trap and see if you're centering the straightaway targets.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Interesting...! How does my raised comb (for the 70/30 vertical pattern) tend to cause or exacerbate the leftward shooting? I can see that recoil and canting would play a part. Also, when you say adjust the butt-pad clockwise, do you mean the heel angled in toward the center of the chest?
 

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The higher the pattern (and the comb), the more exaggerated the movement in the pattern when the gun is canted. But here are some other thoughts.

Many people place too much faith in patterning board results when it comes to POI. My guns have to be adjusted to shoot what looks like ugly high on a board for me to break targets well but if I run up on a target and actually cover it with the bead, it will still break so the gun cannot be shooting that high in "real life." Many of us do something mechanically when shooting a moving gun at a moving target than when shooting a stationary gun at a stationary target. Do your breaks on live targets indicate a left bias to your pattern?

Next, if you are forcing your face hard against the comb to get that perfect sight picture, that could cause the exact thing you are experiencing because when you shift your vision from the gun to the target (as you absolutely should), your body will unconsciously relax to a more comfortable position. That will shift your head to the left and since your eye is the gun's rear sight, it will shoot to the left. You may need to alter the comb or if the stock is wood, have it bent.

Ed
 

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If you say it shoots 70/30 at 16 yards, can we assume it is shooting an inch and a half or so above the point of aim? If not, where is it shooting, in inches, relative to the POA?

Say you canted it at 20 degrees. That's a lot more than it's likely to be, but let's get a real effect. The pattern would move 1.5 x (sin 20 degrees) to the left, assuming a leftward cant.

The sin of 20 degrees is 1/3. So the pattern would be moved (1.5" x 1/3) or one half inch to the left. In other words, what you are getting is not due to cant.

Here's how to get it done off a rest.

http://www.claytargettesting.com/POI/Point_of_Impact_and_Pattern_Testing_at_13_Yards.pdf

Yours in Sport,

Neil

Once you determine that it really is the gun which is causing the left-shooting, which following the instructions on that link will allow you to find out, we can give you useful advice. Until then, we can't. Good luck.
 

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I had the same problem. I made a new cheek piece out of plastic. I offset it more than factory unit allowed. Maybe 1/4." I also had to make new higher pins to get the cheek piece up so I could stack the beads. Try the rest out, but I bet you'll have to do what I did. I would be surprised if the barrel was bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi, Shot 410: I don't quite understand, or can't quite picture, how raising the exaggeratedly-shifted comb allowed you to bring the off-set beads into alignment. And also, isn't your gun now shooting way, way, way too high?
 

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The first step in aligning a barrel should be to get the beads in line. If it then is shooting right or left, you may have to adjust the comb right or left. That will, of course, cause the beads to no longer line up but the gun will shoot where you're aiming.
 

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Hi, Shot 410: I don't quite understand, or can't quite picture, how raising the exaggeratedly-shifted comb allowed you to bring the off-set beads into alignment. And also, isn't your gun now shooting way, way, way too high?

To get the alignment I needed I made a new comb and shifted the holes in the comb to allow it to be moved more to the right. In my case about 1/4" That allowed me to get the beads lined up when my cheek was on the comb. Second issue for me was that the comb did not have enough height adjustment to stack the beads for me due to the shortness of the aligning comb posts. So, I made some longer posts to raise the comb. The second issue has nothing to do with the first issue (alignment of the beads).
 

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But that's not Jk's problem, shot410ga. By making the big mistake of thinning the comb before he found out if the barrel shoots straight he's moved past straight down the rib and gone too far to the right already. Now he has a new problem. He suggests taking the mid bead off to obviate the beads-line-up problem and thereby created a new one. Now the front bead will telling him one thing - "Put the bead on the bird to center it." - and the rib another "Point the rib at the bird and miss it." Does anyone think he can, for 100 targets, use exclusively the bead and never the rib to line the shot up? Not I.

His experience illustrates the problem so many shooters have. They trust the gun even when the evidence is shouting at them that they shouldn't. So he rushed to a "fix" by filing, though it could as well have been buying a choke or a stock or suspecting cant or covering an eye or whatever occurred to him other than finding out what the problem was.

There's but one one way to approach his situation. It's not fixing it. It's finding out what is problem is. Then fixing it.

Yours in Sport,

Neil
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Gotcha. That's what I thought you meant. With my new Remmie, when I shift the comb to its furthest point to the right, I get perfect bead alignment. It's just that all my shots, offhand and aimed dead center on the bull, impact about 70/30 favoring left of center. So, as many have rightly suggested above, I'm gonna do multiple re-testing from benchrest to find out if it's me or the gun. I have a feeling I'm going to discover that the problem is me. I'll report back after doing the "Neil Winston" thing with this gun. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
But that's not Jk's problem, shot410ga. By making the big mistake of thinning the comb before he found out if the barrel shoots straight he's moved past straight down the rib and gone too far to the right already. Now he has a new problem. He suggests taking the mid bead off to obviate the beads-line-up problem and thereby created a new one. Now the front bead will telling him one thing - "Put the bead on the bird to center it." - and the rib another "Point the rib at the bird and miss it." Does anyone think he can, for 100 targets, use exclusively the bead and never the rib to line the shot up? Not I.

His experience illustrates the problem so many shooters have. They trust the gun even when the evidence is shouting at them that they shouldn't. So he rushed to a "fix" by filing, though it could as well have been buying a choke or a stock or suspecting cant or covering an eye or whatever occurred to him other than finding out what the problem was.

There's but one one way to approach his situation. It's not fixing it. It's finding out what is problem is. Then fixing it.

Yours in Sport,

Neil


Whoa! Hi, Neil. I was responding to Shot410 while you were laying out my plight above (masterfully, I might add).
 
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