Just wondering if anybody has any info if they will start letting people use reloads for the handicaps at the Grand again this year? Not trying to start a debate. I just have a fair amount of components on hand and was just wondering.
I do not make the trek to the Grand, I do not recall seeing anything that said the ATA changed the rule about reloads so obviously reloads are allowed ... I can't imagine the negative effect making new shells mandatory would have on the Grand but it sure wouldn't help with the attendance ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
WPT , Shortly after they were allowed, The E.C. passed a rule restricting reloads at the Grand to singles and doubles only, and requiring factory shells for handicap. The shells could be purchased anywhere but they were mandatory for handicap events. I was told a major finnancial contributor who prefered the rule was the reason for it's implementation, howerever, I can neither confirm nor deny that. At any rate it appears the rule is still in place, at least for now. There has been a lot of debate, which I choose not to be involved with. I shot the Grand when you had to use "ALL" new shells and will shoot it no matter. Would prefer to use my reloads --1 oz. # 8s and 18 grs. of Red dot--but will shoot whatever.--ian&bo thanks for the info!
I know that anyone who was shooting for the Martin Bucks ($100,000 Challenge) had to shoot new shells, was not aware that new shells have been mandatory for any handicap events since the move to Sparta ... I know a shooter who has been shooting reloads for handicap and not getting into the pot for Martins money ... Learn something new everyday I guess ... Maybe someone who knows for sure will let us know if the restriction started with Martins Bucks, which is what I seem to recall ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
The rule was changed the first year the Martin's offered the $100K for the handicap shoot off. There was no entry fee required for the $100K handicap event, and as such everyone was required to shoot factory shells for the handicap. The Martin Lewis money was a completely separate pot and did require an entry fee.
Take with a grain of salt anything your Arizona connection says about the ATA and the Grand. Best to rely on people who actually participate in the events in question.
Scott by shooting reloads they knew they were not eleigible for the Martin Money (POT) ... Take that grain of salt and put it where ever you'd like ... Being a life member of the ATA for over 37 years I have seen plenty and come to learn more than you would even care to believe, now get in line with the rest of the followers (where you belong) and put your Rose colored glasses back on, rinse out your mouth before you suck up to the ATA anymore ... Get a hat the sun is getting to you ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
Only 12-gauge and 20-gauge shotguns may be used in the competition. New shells are mandatory for
all handicap events and handicap shoot-offs. Shooters will be able to bring their own shells (including
reloads for single and double events) or may buy shells through Gamaliel Shooting Supply at the shell
house at retail pricing. Empties will be available for sale. Details available at Member Services. The
shell house will be closing at 6 p.m., so make sure that you get your shoot-off shells before 6 p.m.
Violations of the shell standards as listed in the ATA rule book will be dealt with aggressively including
possible long suspensions.
----Copied from 2012 Grand American program
If the officials had known that someone was shooting handicap the last 3 years (the years the 100k shootout was offered)with reloads they would have been disqualified regardless of them playing any money or not.
Before Sparta you had to shoot new shells in all events. It was part of the entry price and was not real cheap.
I was hoping to use my Super-Duper 3 1/2" reloads with 2 ounces of nickel plated 5's. Bummer.... LOL. Actually without the rule of factory shells, required for all handicap events at the Grand, some people would try some amazing reloads. The last time I shot the Grand new shells were required for everything and was included in the price. They were even marked to show they were sold at the Grand. I think it will be tough to have enough shells available this summer for most shooters. I'm still hoping for rebates this year, like Federal & Winchester did last year. Anyone hear anything about rebates?
You've now made two posts that make it clear you don't know what you are talking about regarding the Grand and the rules for the handicap event. You should consider quitting while you are ahead.
The handicap shell rule was not tied in any way to the competition for the Martin jackpot. As a prior poster pointed out, anyone shooting reloads during the handicap events were in violation of the shoot rules, not just ineligible for the Martin money.
Contrary to what you seem to think, just because you've been a member for 37 years, that doesn't automatically make you an expert on everything (as your prior posts have clearly demonstrated). I know you've seen a lot over those 37 years, but one thing we all know you haven't seen is Sparta or have any first hand knowledge of what goes on at the Grand for as long as its been in Sparta
Once again you proved my point, I had been to Sparta before it was ever considered as a place to host any shoot let alone the Mini Grand American that it has grown not be so Grand anymore ... If I ever get to Sparta again it will not be to shoot The Grand and or another shoot, you have my word on it so don't hold your breath or go hold your breath ...(your choice) I lost interest when Sparta got crammed down the members throats and the ATA has paid for it ever since by the lacking in attendance ... I will pick and choose the shoots I attend or choose not to attend, the rules for the most part are consistant and any part of them that differ won't effect me any way ... I refused the reduction and shoot new shells all the time, don't shoot singles or doubles except when playing (still shoot new shells) ...
The new shell rule was scrubbed prior to the Martin Challenge, it then became a part of the Martin Challenge by the rules that were set forth and as I understood by the Martins ... I questioned one of the shooters who shot reloads and was told that they were wasting their time and shell money in an attempt to outshoot the Big Dogs for the Martin Challenge, as it turned out not many Big Dogs had qualified while it existed ... Prior to the Martin money is one thing, slide action pointed out that now new shells are mandated for the handicap events, so close the cover on that one ... Personally I only shoot new shells and have for over 30 years so to me it would matter one way or the other, if I was going to shoot any events at the Grand which I am not ... No you won't see me in Sparta this year, next year or any year after that but if you ever get to Arizona look me up, I'm in the book ... Bring a hat, the sun out here is a killer compared to back there ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
The first hundred Grand money donated by the Martins required new shells to participate. If the trend is continued without the added money draw, that will reduce the over-all numbers somewhat in my opinion. More shooting expense is the last thing our sport needs with 5 flats at 400 bucks for premium shells. The total numbers of shooters by the last day will tell the story of whether or not the shoot is affected. Then again, there's a number of other things we could blame also?
Scott, having multiple personalities gives me the secure feeling I'm not alone on the line. That way, when I do shoot alone, I'm still shooting with all my best friends.
Hirem N. Firem (a handle from my bossin days)
In all seriousness, for whats best for trap shooting, I honestly feel this is the wrong time to mandate new shells again at the Grand American. I'm sure there's several locals in the Ill., Mo. and local areas this may deter. Years ago the excuse was target managers with potent ammo but that's a one in a million shot or higher? Better than three fourths of the shooters would/will buy new ammo regardless of ammo mandates in my opinion. Families with a couple kids shooting premium ammo? An extra 800 bucks? Then again, if money isn't a problem, there is no problem and so it goes.