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Discussion Starter #1
I may have come accross something that others can also try. I have had some problems with the oversized cheap primers and found that if I sprayed the primers on the tray with Hornady ONE SHOT case lube they go into the hulls much easier. It was made as a rifle case resizing lube and says it "will not" contaminate powder or primers. Sure hope they're right. Glenn
 

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They only go in harder the first time!!! Then no problems after that. Yes, I feel its worth the extra effort, and not being able to go back to the Rem's and Win's as I don't see them coming down in price until long after my hulls are in the trash. So swiching back is not an issue for me. Break-em all. Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I realize they only go in harder the first time, what I am saying is this makes them go in easier the first time also. I quit using my Hyd.Unit because when a primer doesn't go in all the way it screws everything up and jams the system. Seems like an easy fix if you need one. Glenn
 

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Mike,

I had it happen to my K-80. I believe it is problem Kreighoff should repair under warranty but I was "wrong". Saving $25 a sleeve was no saving in my case.

I only reload with AA's or Federal's now. Sold off all my Chedites, and using up the Fiocchi's in the girlfriends BT-99.

Don Verna
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Unfortunately I have 25000 left to use up so I had to figure something out and this seems to ease the insertion. Glenn
 

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I have been using Nobel, Chedites and Fiocchi's for some time. Many many thousands of them. I have never had a primer pierced and no problem with Hyd Mec. They all have gone bang just fine. I'm very satisfied. I am shooting a 90T, before that a Remington 1100 and my wife shoots a BT99. All good. Your mileage may vary.

Mike Sudz
 

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Chris Vendel just repaired the damage incurred by Cheddite primers to the top firing pin of my K-80. Same thing as Mike Poore above. The bottom barrel was OK. I used them for practice only to save a little money. Never again.

Jon Reitz
 

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Could it be a pierced primer is the result of a firing pin that is out of adjustment (pushes out to far)? I really have no idea except that I have pushed thousands of them into hulls and they always go bang and I have never had one pierce. Just my 2 cents worth. Paul in Nebraska.
 

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I don't know how many thousands of Fiocchi 616 primers I have put through my KS-5 without any problems except for the fact that some of the shells don't break the targets. :) Winchester primers and shells have been another situation altogether. I have had several delayed ignitions and pure duds with Winchester 209 primers this last summer. During the 2010 National Junior Skeet Championships last summer my grandson had 4 delayed firings from factory Winchester .410 shells during the final round, he was using in the championship shoot. One of the delayed firings cost him the championship. I have never had a problem with Fiocchi primers and my son & grandson have never had a problem with Cheddite.

Cheddite had been making ammo and components since 1980 in France and Fiocchi has been in business since 1789. Both companies have been selling mainly in Europe until recently and I have to assume that European shoother are shooting both P and K guns also.

....Paul
 

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<blockquote><i>"Could it be a pierced primer is the result of a firing pin that is out of adjustment (pushes out to far)? I really have no idea except that I have pushed thousands of them into hulls and they always go bang and I have never had one pierce."</i></blockquote>I started to look closely at the euro primers I punched holes in just before I gave up on them and I noticed that there was a difference between how the euro models looked compared to how the American primers looked.

The primer cups of the Winchesters, Federals and CCIs (never used STS) I used had a clearly defined uniform dimple in them even though the under firing pin in an XT hits them a downward strike from above and right; the metal around the dimple didn't seem to move.

The primer cups of the euro primers looked different when struck. It was clear to see by the shape of the dimple that the primer had been struck from above right. The metal was pushed in and away from the firing pin. The metal around the primer strike was also pushed in a bit so that the whole primer cup appeared to have been pushed inward and had the firing pin dimple in more-or-less the center of it all.

While the heat and gas escaping from the punched primer cups probably changed the way they looked, under magnification in looked like the primer cup had been cracked or torn by the pin (even factory new and polished pins) and that caused the failure of the primer cup and the punch-through.

My observation, my diagnosis...

MK
 

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I don`t think Hornady had in mind someone hoseing them down with lube in a tray when they said "will not contaminate primers" LOL, do they still work ???
 

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Have ran 15k of Nobel Sport and Fiocchi thru my CG Summit, never had a piercing problem nor any firing pin issues! Looks like you K gun guys need to find out whos pitching you excuses!! I dont hear others chiming in on firing pin issues with other brands of guns......

Oh just look how the tide can turn........................
 

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I try to stay away from the chiddite primers, just because of the primer piercing!!! Some guns have no problem while others guns pierce the primer with some regularity (within the same make and model). There seems to be no ryme or reason to this. I know that the Kreighoffs (both 32's and 80's) have a probem with them while others seem to be OK. I have had no primer piercings with the Nobel Sports, but I do find they have a hard cup cover and don't seem to dimple as deep as the Win.s I normally have used in the past. Once in a great while I will have one not go off and have to turn the shell in the chamber 180 degress and then it goes off fine. Its a small price to pay as I only have this happen once in 100 to 150 shells. Yes, it is always the bottom barrel of my Browning as well. I have not noticed any excessive wear at all on the firing pins. So bottom line is try a couple hundred before you buy alot of these primers. As long as the primer is not pierced, I don't think you are going to damage the firing pin or hurt the hammer springs. My 2 cents. Break-em all. Jeff
 

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<blockquote><I>"...I dont hear others chiming in on firing pin issues with other brands of guns...... "</I></blockquote>Chipmaker:

my previous post specified that I was using an XT

Did you read that before you posted? Do you know who makes the XT? NOT the "K" people!

XT, 4 of them, all do it bottom barrel, all use stock springs and pins.

Wasted more money changing firing pins than I ever saved buying the cheap primers.

Now calm down!

MK
 

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My first question would be, "what about K and P guns that live in Europe where those "inferior" primers are the norm? Just doesn't pass the smell test for me.....


IMHO,
Kip
 

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Wow Unknown I think you need a Zanax or something I was not nor did I direct my comment at you post...... it was the guys whom had said that firing pin breakage and pierce issues were blamed on "cheap" primers!

My point was if the "cheap Euro" primers are so hard and bad and problematic why does it not appear in my (2)CG's or my "B" gun XT Special. Why are other gun owners of other manufactures not bringing forth the same complaints?

Side bar to the point is Someone perceived as knowledgeable who might be a "dealer" or what ever makes a statement and it becomes gospel. With very little logical or factual information to back it up! Just arbitrarily off the cuff spew out its those cheap primer that caused the problem. From then on it gets passed around and lots of people will think it but ask them how or why its true.... yep you'll get that really blank stare and then they will just remember they have something to do...!Rest assured it would not be incorrect heat treating or maybe not the optimum steel to make the firing pins out of, or even not enough hammer spring or too little, or too much protrusion of the firing pin etc etc etc

But hey what would I know about metals and heat treating and design of mechanical parts...........I guess 30+ years in the Tool & Die business would not mean I know S&*T for apple butter............
 

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You probably save in the neighborhood of about half a cent per primer. Is it really worth it to save about 12 cents per box, risking an ammo malfunction at a shoot or possibly damaging your expensive firearm? Neil Swenson
 

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<blockquote><I>"...My first question would be, "what about K and P guns that live in Europe where those "inferior" primers are the norm?..."</i></blockquote>How many reports have you gotten recently from Europe that would make you intimately familiar with the problem (or lack of same) over there?

I have 4 guns that can digest every "American" primer without a burp and whose firing pins last from one annual to the next (30K to 40K rounds on average) with nary a mark on them. When I try to feed them a Rio or Fiocchi or Cheddite primer, we get holes and splits in primer cups and divots in the firing pin noses. There is no way I'm going to listen to "the primers aren't the problem" from anyone...expert or otherwise.

MK
 
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