I don't see any recipies on Alliant's web site for reloading Top Guns. Can the be used the same as Federal Gold Madals ? Also Hodgdon's doesn't seem to have any recipies. I usually load Rem. hulls / 1 1/8th oz. / with Tightgroup, Green Dot , or American Select.Someone gave me 200 or so hulls and would like to use them. Any recipies out there??
Reloading Federal Top Guns
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·I've used gold medal data in em with about a half gr more powder.
That is odd, as I have in front of me the "hard copy" for alliant 2004 edition!
Their load for "rolled paper base wad"( which the top gun is) calls for Fed primer, Fed 12 S3 (or clone) wad, 21 grns of green dot and 1 1/8 oz shot! According to alliant book, this gives 1200 fps and 8000 psi pressure! If you want 1255 fps, use 22 grns. By the way, according to same book, it takes 20 grns of green dot if you want 1200 fps. Tom Rhoads
Their load for "rolled paper base wad"( which the top gun is) calls for Fed primer, Fed 12 S3 (or clone) wad, 21 grns of green dot and 1 1/8 oz shot! According to alliant book, this gives 1200 fps and 8000 psi pressure! If you want 1255 fps, use 22 grns. By the way, according to same book, it takes 20 grns of green dot if you want 1200 fps. Tom Rhoads
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I load the Top Guns with Rio Primer, Windjammer wad, 1 1/8th oz 7.5s and 20 Grs of Promo Powder, about 1250fps, I have loaded thousands of this recipe.
Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
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dkusner:
Our friend tcr1146 correctly identified the applicable data for Top Guns.
My personal favorite calls for
1 1/8 oz. shot
18.5 grs Red Dot powder
12S3 wad
With this basic combination, there is published data using Win 209, Rem 209P, Fed 209A or even Federal's old Fed 209 primer. The velocity for any/all of these loads is 1145 fps. Chamber pressure varies from 7300 psi (to low to cycle some autoloaders) to 9100 psi.
Using the Fed 209A, one can increase the powder charge by a mere 1/2 grain (from 18.5 grs to 19 grs) and get a three dram load (1200 fps). It also jumps the chamber pressure by 2000 psi.
I don't load Top Guns with Clays. Hodgdon's recipes start at three dram and go bigger from there. I don't do big bullets cause I'm a recoil sissy.
Our friend tcr1146 correctly identified the applicable data for Top Guns.
My personal favorite calls for
1 1/8 oz. shot
18.5 grs Red Dot powder
12S3 wad
With this basic combination, there is published data using Win 209, Rem 209P, Fed 209A or even Federal's old Fed 209 primer. The velocity for any/all of these loads is 1145 fps. Chamber pressure varies from 7300 psi (to low to cycle some autoloaders) to 9100 psi.
Using the Fed 209A, one can increase the powder charge by a mere 1/2 grain (from 18.5 grs to 19 grs) and get a three dram load (1200 fps). It also jumps the chamber pressure by 2000 psi.
I don't load Top Guns with Clays. Hodgdon's recipes start at three dram and go bigger from there. I don't do big bullets cause I'm a recoil sissy.
Anyways....my last question is ..Why does Alliant list cheapo Remington Gun Clubs (same as STS/Nito)...and not cheapo Federal Top Guns ? ..under 2 and 3/4" shells? I'm looking at Alliant's site and there is "Federal Paper Shells" ..2 and 3/4" ,tnen Federal "Hi Power shells"..with rolled paper base wad..... 3". As I've read here, Federal (2 and 3/4")Estates and (2 and 3/4") Top Guns are identical....but why no data? I understand the staight wall vs tapered wall (Rem versus Federal)....why doen't Alliant? Guess I'll just call Alliant and complain ....or try about 18 grains Amer. Select / 12SO3 wad. I buy their powder ....why do they care what hull I use and can't list it ?
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Use the Federal "paper" data.
John C. Saubak
John C. Saubak
Thanks John ...and just as I was going to try. Top Gun / 12S3 / 19 grains Amer. Select / Fed. primer = 1145 fps/ 8200 PSI. I guesss I don't understand why they can't list Estates/ Top Guns, while they do list Gun Clubs.... Like everyone knows a Top Gun is a "Federal paper target shell" ! (and there are Federal "Papers" )
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dkusner:
It is no wonder you're confused and frustrated. With the very best of intentions, 'we' have let you down.
I sent you a private message this morning at 11:54am ET. You obviously didn't see it so I pasted a copy below. Comments in (parenthesis) are additions not in the original PM...
___________________
dkusner:
I just looked at Alliant's on-line reloaders' guide (just before noon today) and was suprised to see they no longer list (2 3/4") Top Gun data. I dug up the latest hard copy guide that I picked up at the Grand. No Top Gun data there either. So... I pulled out an older version.
The older version has American Select data for other hulls but not for Top Guns. I would NOT substitute American Select for Green Dot without getting Alliant's blessing.
Alliant's site has email and phone contact data. I have found Ben Amoinette to be extremely helpful. Tell him what unpublished oomponent combination you'd like to try (hull, powder, wad, primer, and shot weight) and he can usually tell you if its advisable or not. He's also good about prompt responses.
Good luck with your quest. sissy
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The bottom line is this: Alliant has published data for 2 3/4" Top Gun hulls since at least the mid 1980's. We were apparently so accustomed to seeing it that nobody noticed it has been dropped from Alliant's online guide and from their most recent printed version. THAT is the reason folks are telling you to look at Alliant's website for Top Gun data and you can't find Top Gun data on the website. It aint there no more!
Since I sent the PM, you've written about a couple of items that haven't been addressed.
First:
"12-Gauge, 2 3/4" Federal Hi Power Plastic Shell with Rolled Paper Base Wad" is how Alliant previously listed data Top Gun hulls. Top Guns are most definately NOT the same as "Federal Paper Target Shells" or Federal Gold Medal Plastic Target Shells".
Second:
Data for Remington Gun Clubs is listed under the same section as STS and Nitros because for purposes of reloading, they are all three ballistically identical. Any combination of components appropriate for an STS or Nitro hull is also appropriate for Gun Club hulls.
So... please don't hesitate to contact Alliant with questions. If you wish to fuss, it should be directed at 'us'. The confusion isn't Alliant's fault. That fault lies with 'us'.
I hope this note helps clear up the confusion. If you still have questions or need more clarification, send me a PM.
sissy
It is no wonder you're confused and frustrated. With the very best of intentions, 'we' have let you down.
I sent you a private message this morning at 11:54am ET. You obviously didn't see it so I pasted a copy below. Comments in (parenthesis) are additions not in the original PM...
___________________
dkusner:
I just looked at Alliant's on-line reloaders' guide (just before noon today) and was suprised to see they no longer list (2 3/4") Top Gun data. I dug up the latest hard copy guide that I picked up at the Grand. No Top Gun data there either. So... I pulled out an older version.
The older version has American Select data for other hulls but not for Top Guns. I would NOT substitute American Select for Green Dot without getting Alliant's blessing.
Alliant's site has email and phone contact data. I have found Ben Amoinette to be extremely helpful. Tell him what unpublished oomponent combination you'd like to try (hull, powder, wad, primer, and shot weight) and he can usually tell you if its advisable or not. He's also good about prompt responses.
Good luck with your quest. sissy
_____________
The bottom line is this: Alliant has published data for 2 3/4" Top Gun hulls since at least the mid 1980's. We were apparently so accustomed to seeing it that nobody noticed it has been dropped from Alliant's online guide and from their most recent printed version. THAT is the reason folks are telling you to look at Alliant's website for Top Gun data and you can't find Top Gun data on the website. It aint there no more!
Since I sent the PM, you've written about a couple of items that haven't been addressed.
First:
"12-Gauge, 2 3/4" Federal Hi Power Plastic Shell with Rolled Paper Base Wad" is how Alliant previously listed data Top Gun hulls. Top Guns are most definately NOT the same as "Federal Paper Target Shells" or Federal Gold Medal Plastic Target Shells".
Second:
Data for Remington Gun Clubs is listed under the same section as STS and Nitros because for purposes of reloading, they are all three ballistically identical. Any combination of components appropriate for an STS or Nitro hull is also appropriate for Gun Club hulls.
So... please don't hesitate to contact Alliant with questions. If you wish to fuss, it should be directed at 'us'. The confusion isn't Alliant's fault. That fault lies with 'us'.
I hope this note helps clear up the confusion. If you still have questions or need more clarification, send me a PM.
sissy
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4,396 Posts
dkusner:
I just saw Old Cowboy's note. No disrespect to him but don't assume you can use data published for Federal Papers or Plastic Gold Medals in Top Gun hulls.
There's a reason Alliant has (or had) separate listings for the different Federal hulls. If it were safe and appropriate to use the same data for all Federal hulls, the recipes would be listed under one heading something like "ok to use in any Federal hull".
If you see data for Papers or Gold Medals you'd like to try in a Top Gun, ask Alliant.
sissy
I just saw Old Cowboy's note. No disrespect to him but don't assume you can use data published for Federal Papers or Plastic Gold Medals in Top Gun hulls.
There's a reason Alliant has (or had) separate listings for the different Federal hulls. If it were safe and appropriate to use the same data for all Federal hulls, the recipes would be listed under one heading something like "ok to use in any Federal hull".
If you see data for Papers or Gold Medals you'd like to try in a Top Gun, ask Alliant.
sissy
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