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Red Dot - At long last.

3830 Views 22 Replies 16 Participants Last post by  Pull & Mark
I have been reloading for 30 years and never used Red Dot. 700x, Clays, International Clays and a few other but never Red Dot. I was able to secure a 4lb jug so here goes.
Question on how much powder to use to get a "Clean Shooting Load". This is my one ounce GP shell.
Using Rem hulls, W209, and a TGT wad. I'm not concerned with the speed 1200 is a target but 1150 is fine and so is 1225.
Is 17 gr enough to burn clean?

Thanks in advance.

I may also try some Federal GM hulls also, but they use more powder.
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Right out of Alliant Powder Reloaders Guide. Remington hull, Win 209 primer, Rem R12L wad, 1 oz. shot, 20.0 grs Red Dot, 10100 psi.
With Federal Gold Metal plastic there is no 1 oz. load listed with Red Dot and a Win 209 primer but with a Fed 209A primer, a 12SO Fed wad and 18.0 grs of Red Dot will yield 1200 fps and 8300 psi. Tom
 

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I used to use a lot of Red Dot, a LONG time ago



For the last 30 years or more, none. But if someone were to gift a keg to me in today's situation I'd take it. Kicking and screaming of course. But I'd try to swap it for a keg of Clays first.
 

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I have been reloading for 30 years and never used Red Dot. 700x, Clays, International Clays and a few other but never Red Dot. I was able to secure a 4lb jug so here goes.
Question on how much powder to use to get a "Clean Shooting Load". This is my one ounce GP shell.
Using Rem hulls, W209, and a TGT wad. I'm not concerned with the speed 1200 is a target but 1150 is fine and so is 1225.
Is 17 gr enough to burn clean?

Thanks in advance.

I may also try some Federal GM hulls also, but they use more powder.
I use that load quite often in gun clubs for first shot on doubles. It burns clean for me if that matters for you.
 

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Red Dot is now 50% cleaner! So, instead of being very, very dirty it's now just very dirty. In 40+ years of handloading, the only powder I ever used that caused mechanical issues. Good luck.
Please explain.

I've been using Red Dot for 5.5 decades without issue.
 

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Of course, Clays is "clean burning" and its "burning characteristics produce soft, smooth recoil and excellent patterns." Right?
If you say so LOL. Although the "clean burning" really isn't open to debate it is compared to Red Dot. And 1 oz. loads. I've never used Red Dot in 1 1/8 oz. loads that is what Green Dot or International is for at least in my book.

About 15 years ago when lead starting going over $9.99 a bag to save money I switched to Promo and F616 primers. And did save money, if you shoot enough it adds up. That summer looks like the son and I went through at least 17,000 rounds using that combination.



Was just as dirty as I remembered Red Dot being. Everything was filthy I don't mind the gun so much that is easy to clean. Hulls, clothing, anything you touch is filthy too. I used to accept that as normal until I used Clays. But I was saving money. Then it got cold and the cheaping out to save money fell apart the Promo F616 combo was not a good cold weather load.

Went back to Clays and never looked back since. Although am getting low on Clays and Clay Dot. Have a bit more than 12 pounds of Green Dot and 8 pounds of IMR Green though. Push comes to shove I can use them for 1 oz. loads in the 12 if I have to. Or just load 1 1/8 oz. where it is best at, if I don't run out of lead first.
 

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Please explain.

I've been using Red Dot for 5.5 decades without issue.

I competed at sporting clays for a decade with a 32" 1928 Fox SxS. I put 80,000 rounds thru the old girl before I had a Perazzi 'smith tighten her up again. He said I could come back after the next 100,000.

My go-to load was, is and always has been a 1 ounce load at 1225 fps with 19 grains Green Dot and a magnum primer. But I've loaded 7/8 ounce for casual practice with several powders. I started with Red Dot and near the end of the first keg, around 3,000 rds, I started experiencing a hair-set trigger. After 2 or 3 of those, I actually had a slam-fire. I removed the stock and found a build up powder grains and red dots under the triggers. By then I was into my second keg of Red Dot and somewhere around another 3,000 rounds, it happened again.

I switched to E3 and, ultimately, the cleanest powder I've ever used...Extralite ... for my 7/8 loads and never had another problem. Seems that when I opened the SxS and plucked the empties from the chambers, Red Dot garbage would dribble out and find its way into the action.

Alliant themselves admit it's dirty or they wouldn't be crowing about it being 50% cleaner ... after selling it for 100 years.
 

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I competed at sporting clays for a decade with a 32" 1928 Fox SxS. I put 80,000 rounds thru the old girl before I had a Perazzi 'smith tighten her up again. He said I could come back after the next 100,000.

My go-to load was, is and always has been a 1 ounce load at 1225 fps with 19 grains Green Dot and a magnum primer. But I've loaded 7/8 ounce for casual practice with several powders. I started with Red Dot and near the end of the first keg, around 3,000 rds, I started experiencing a hair-set trigger. After 2 or 3 of those, I actually had a slam-fire. I removed the stock and found a build up powder grains and red dots under the triggers. By then I was into my second keg of Red Dot and somewhere around another 3,000 rounds, it happened again.

I switched to E3 and, ultimately, the cleanest powder I've ever used...Extralite ... for my 7/8 loads and never had another problem. Seems that when I opened the SxS and plucked the empties from the chambers, Red Dot garbage would dribble out and find its way into the action.

Alliant themselves admit it's dirty or they wouldn't be crowing about it being 50% cleaner ... after selling it for 100 years.
I had a feeling that is exactly where you were headed, although wasn't expecting a Buckingham Bo-Whoop, good for you! Super Fox 32" are kind of in short supply so I went with a Pacific Sporting Arms 32" Plantation Sporter for my 12 ga. SxS SC gun. Did come close to going with a NID though.

Last year a friend of mine called me saying his Ithaca 37 would fire every time he closed the action. I have a lot of 37's and grew up with them and never had that happen before. He asked if that was what slam fire meant and I said only if he had his finger on the trigger when he pumped it. Told him never heard or seen that before and remove the trigger assembly and clean it. He did with me on the phone and said it was packed full of unburnt powder flakes. Red Dot. He cleaned it and it has been fine since.

Tried E3 for 12 ga. 7/8 oz. when Kevin at DR came out with pink XXL wad but in the cold it failed on me. Tried E3 because so many said it was a great cold weather powder. Before I moved to Mn. from NC where I had retired from the Navy I checked Upstate NY January temps and Mn. averages 20° colder each day. Upstate NY was my baseline and reference point for cold at the time. Takes cold to whole different level here, still have most of that 1 pound container of E3 in the reloading room. I use Clays for 7/8 oz. and even occasionally 3/4 oz. in the cold with no issues.

If you are using 19 gr. of GD for 1 oz. I am more comfortable giving it a try now if I have to. I trust you and your experience been reading your posts on different sites for ~20 years and you haven't steered me wrong yet :) Although I assume by magnum primers you mean Federals. I am down to only a thousand or so of those but have 11K+ Cheddites. Hodgdon does have load data for Rem\IMR Green\Cheddite\DR XL-1 and looks like 19 gr. puts it right at 1225 fps and 8,500 psi. Hmmm imagine that LOL. Already use GD for the 16 and 12 ga. 1 1/8 oz. if it works well for 1 oz. 12 ga. wouldn't take a lot to make me switch.

That Perazzi smith wouldn't have been Giacomo was it? It is because of him I use Tri-flow on my guns. If it is good enough for him and Perazzi's it is good enough for me. Although it was a Yardbird that turned me on to it in Washington State back in the late 70's. Nothing came close to it for bolts on steam flanges in the engine and boiler room of ships exposed to salt air and heat for a penetrating fluid. Not even Kroil.
 

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We could be twins with different mothers. My slam fire actually occurred while I was shooting the Bo-Whoop competition at Hausmann's. Good thing was that I was all alone in the shooting stand out in front of the spectators. Bad thing was blowing a hole in the ground with an AD while people were watching.

I tried E3 and loved the ballistics; even low-temp tested it (it's great) and developed a pressure-tested load for the 16ga. But erratic drops scared me off. Legend has it the drop issue was batch-related and went away. No matter, I found Extralite better for my purposes. Just as clean and matching the speed of E3 generates an additional 500-1000 psi, which can be a good thing with light loads.

I adopted F209A's and/or CCI209M's as my default primers many years ago. At the time, all primers cost the same and a magnum primer was worth a 1/2 grain of powder. By predicating my loads on magnum primers, I never feared a primer substitution if needed.

Lastly, I'm a TriFlo fan, too. I love the smell, the results are great and it didn't hurt to know Giacomo liked it, too.
 
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