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Discussion Starter #1
Has any one tried to substitute Win. 209's for Remington 209's?

What is the differance in the two?

I am just getting tired of that every time I buy Remingtons, the price has gone up,

that is if you cand find them.

I load Rem. hulls (have a lot) 16.5 E3. CB4118-12b wad.

Works well for me at both singles & mid-Hdcp.

Thanks

Hal
 

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Stick with what the powder manufacturer has tested and recommends. Chances are nothing will happen if you don't but if it does you have to ask yourself, was it worth it?

Some of the loads I use does have Win 209 primer in a Rem STS hull as per Hodgdon load data.

Bill
 

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Winchester and Remington behave differently in differnt loads. There is no blanket answer as to how it would do. Assuming you are shooting a 1 1/8 oz load, the Alliant Reload Guide shows you should be hitting around 9,390 psi. With a load at less than 10K psi, the Winchester substitute should not drive you to dangerous overpressure loads. Of course, you could always ask Alliant: 1-800-276-9337, [email protected]
 

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To answer your questions, I have substituted Winchesters and Chedites for the Remington primers and could not tell the difference. A Remington primer is a little weaker than a Winchester or Chedite. I've been using Chedites as a sustitute for Winchesters and Remingtons. I am happy with the performance and the price. HMB
 

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According to Tom Armbrust, there isn't a big difference when using 700X:
http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

John
 

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Probably best to call Alliant. I have given up on Remington primers because of price. Sometimes the Winchester is difficult to seat the first time in a Remington Hull if the opening through the plastic base is tight. Cheddites work well and that is what I use now. I can't tell any difference in performance.
 

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Alliant always lists Remington primers for Remington hulls. Call them. Mark
 

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Alliant lists all primers in their reloading guide. It doesn't use every brand of primer for every load, but if you use the charts, you'll see Win209's, CCI M's, Fed's etc listed for use in GC/STS/Nitro hulls.

My handicap load is a Gun Club, 20 gr. Green Dot, Win209, Windjammer. It's 1200 fps at 8000 psi.


Regards,

Chip Porter
 

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Hal, W209 primers are "standard" height while the STS209 primers are .010" lower. The W209 primers have a step in their OD specifically to accommodate STS hulls, so you will have no problem loading them.

As has been said above, the two primers work differently with different powders. That being said, the conventional wisdom the the W209 is hotter is put to rest in the Lyman data. Their loading data often shows the W209 delivers less velocity and less pressure the the STS209 in an otherwise identical load.

Make the switch. You'll save money and if your primer trap has a cover on it (like my Grand) you'll find out you have fewer primer hangups, because all such trays are designed to work with "standard" height primers.
 

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Use cheddites,,,I called Alliant when I first began loading 2yrs ago,with my info which had Cheddites listed as primer.I was told everything would be fine.

But,call and ask if you have any doubts,better safe than sorry.

Doug H.
 

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Hal, Call Alliants powder tech and get the OK from them. I've been told by Hodgdon I "believe" that if you can't find the correct data with Win primers and only can find the load with Rem primers you should back off 5/10 of a grain on powder if you switch from Rem to Win. primers. Bottom line always talk to the powder tech of the powder your using. I did not look up your load, but Its even more important if your load has a high pressure to start with already. break em all Jeff
 

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In my experience, Winchester primers tended to back out of the shell after reloading in Remington shells since the W209s are longer or shaped differently than the Remington primers. I have seen posts here where other people had the same problem. I use Rem primers in Rem cases only.
 

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Finally, some logical answers. I am having the same problem with using cheddites which I have researched to be comparable to Win209. I am loading with promo, sts hulls and DRXL blue and there is no listing for Win209.
 

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Wow, Thats intresting I have been loading Cheddites for 3 year. I load about 25,000 a year in Winchester,Federals and Remington hulls with no back out problems at all.I have noticed that the Remington hulls take just a tad more seating force than the rest and I reload five to six times on a hull. Dont get me wrong I am not saying that you don't have this happen. Just that I have not seen this with my reloads.

Mark
 

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No back out problems with Ceddites either,,I use a Mec 9000,maybe it's a machine problem.

Doug H.
 

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Primers don't "back out" of Rem hulls. Those were never seated flush to begin with. Only Rem uses the odd shaped primer and the corresponding odd shaped primer pocket in the hull. Some of the hulls simply will not yield and allow a non-rem primer to seat. That is no coincidence, it is apparently the way Remington wants it to be. To avoid the aggravation, I simply don't use Remington shells.
 
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