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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I took a precision rifle course with a rented rifle last year, and I liked it. I have access to a 1000 yard range with metal targets all over the place. I have 300 rounds of 308 left over from the course. Many people encourage me to get 6.5 creedmore instead. It will be for target shooting only, not for hunting. I wont be buying until September or October unless a good deal pops up, its too dang hot in the valley of the sun to shoot much this time of year.

I like the long barrel life of the 308, but have to wonder how long it would take me to wear out a 6.5 creedmore barrel at this stage of my life. Ending up with one of each eventually is not out of the question.

Any opinions? Here in AZ this is the off season, kinda like you northerners in winter. Less shooting and more wondering. Separate thread for scopes later on.
 

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Do you plan to reload or shoot factory ammo? I ask because there are much better calibers than a Creedmore but you need to reload for them. I shoot F-Class at 600 and 1000 yards, and there are no top tier F-Class shooters using the 6.5. I personally shoot the 308, but my barrels are throated long, and I use 200 grain bullets, small primer brass, and push them 2800+ FPS which is much different than factory ammo.
The most popular caliber for F-Class Open category is the 284 Winchester (7mm), and variations of this parent case. 180-184 grain bullets moving at 2800-2950 FPS depending on your setup.
AccurateShooter.com is a good site for additional information in long range accurate shooting. In AZ you have one of the premier ranges for this sport at Ben Avery. Be careful though, it is pretty addictive.
 

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Not an expert but I do plan to have occasional opportunities to get to a 1000yd range. As noted above reloading opens lots of options but for me I started with a .308 and moving over to 6.5. Both rounds have a decent selection of factory ammo and the 6.5 has less recoil which is good for me and for when I take out new shooters.

At todays prices for ammo/components I’ll be broke before I shoot out a barrel.
 

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First, there is nothing magical about the 6.5 - despite all you might have heard.

It is actually a fairly old round/concept (Google - 260 Remington, 6.5 Swede, 257 Weatherby...).

Ballistically it trails the 308 out to at least 500 yards, there is a transition point and then around 750 yards the BC of the 6.5 nudges it slightly ahead of the 308. I have had fun with the 6.5 shooters by pulling out a 300 Weatherby, which, while using a 308 bullet trounces the 6.5 again and again.

If you have the ammo, and an inkling to re-load I would stick with what you have and know. "Beware the man with one rifle."


 

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6.5 is a good choice because of recoil and you've got tons of bullet options. I would go with something a little hotter than the Creedmore. I like the 6.5-06 or the 6.5x284 but you'll need to handload. I don't have any experience with the PRC but it's supposed to be a good one too.

Dad has a 300 Norma built by Kelbly. It's about a 12lb gun and has a brake so recoil is not bad. But expensive to shoot.

If I was building a 1000 yard gun I'd probably do it in .300 Win mag. You can buy factory ammo if you don't want to handload and it's relatively inexpensive. A can or a muzzle brake tames the recoil nicely. Probably overkill but I just like the cartridge.
 

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Another vote for the 300 Win Mag. My opinion, a lot of bang for your buck ( zero puns intended ). If you are in the Phoenix area, go talk to Lester Bruno up at Bruno’s Shooters Supply. The man is very well known in the High Power community. He builds and sells custom guns. Call before you go. You may need to make an appointment.
 

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I took a precision rifle course with a rented rifle last year, and I liked it. I have access to a 1000 yard range with metal targets all over the place. I have 300 rounds of 308 left over from the course. Many people encourage me to get 6.5 creedmore instead. It will be for target shooting only, not for hunting. I wont be buying until September or October unless a good deal pops up, its too dang hot in the valley of the sun to shoot much this time of year.

I like the long barrel life of the 308, but have to wonder how long it would take me to wear out a 6.5 creedmore barrel at this stage of my life. Ending up with one of each eventually is not out of the question.

Any opinions? Here in AZ this is the off season, kinda like you northerners in winter. Less shooting and more wondering. Separate thread for scopes later on.
Buy a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308.

It will shoot better than you can, you can use up your extra ammo, and additional ammo is more readily available than other calibers.

Shoot 175 or 185 grain bullets and you'll ring steel with the best of them.

Doping the wind is the real test in long range shooting anyway.

Put a decent $2,500 - $3,500 scope on it and you'll be more than competitive with the other casual shooters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Another vote for the 300 Win Mag. My opinion, a lot of bang for your buck ( zero puns intended ). If you are in the Phoenix area, go talk to Lester Bruno up at Bruno’s Shooters Supply. The man is very well known in the High Power community. He builds and sells custom guns. Call before you go. You may need to make an appointment.
I have been in the shop looking for pistol and shotgun powder, but I think I was talking to his son?

I dont have much interest in reloading rifle rounds. That might change, but I doubt it. I don't even want to compete. In my course I actually like being the spotter just as much as the shooter. No rangefinders used in the course, had to measure the mils of a know dimension target and get the range that way. I was usually within 5 or 10 yards of actual range 800 yards and beyond. It was the mental aspect of long range shooting that was appealing, but being the trigger man was fun too. I would need a lot more practice reading the wind to be good 800 plus yards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Buy a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308.

It will shoot better than you can, you can use up your extra ammo, and additional ammo is more readily available than other calibers.

Shoot 175 or 185 grain bullets and you'll ring steel with the best of them.

Doping the wind is the real test in long range shooting anyway.

Put a decent $2,500 - $3,500 scope on it and you'll be more than competitive with the other casual shooters.
The Ruger Precision Rifle was the rental gun I used in the course. The instructors favored buying a Tikka if going for a factory rifle, after that custom recommendations were abundant. Yes, I plan on spending more for the glass than the rifle. I favor simple reticles, not sure what all those crowded reticles are for. I was surprised at how much difference the shooter looking through the scope would measure a target compared to a quality spotting scope. I imagine I will get lazy, or tired of optical ranging, and just buy a rangefinder someday.
 

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not sure what all those crowded reticles are for.
They're for measuring, like you mentioned. That and for quickly getting on target with an errant estimation.

And doing hold offs. Most don't dial windage, they hold off. The dots on the Christmas tree help with that.

While doing the mil calculations is nice, no one really does that. Buy a decent rangefinder.

And get a ballistic calculator, like Strelok Pro.

And a Kestrel so you have accurate environmental data.
 

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The 6.5 CM answered a need for an accurate, pleasant to shoot round that was easy on barrel throats so it took off like crazy. It spawned the growth of other 6.5 cartridges that exceed the CM's muzzle velocity but not by any amount critical to target shooting, at least not in a short-action length and at reasonable distances. All of its qualities still exist so it is every bit as good a target shell as it ever was. I saw that you don't handload your ammunition so the variety and abundance of factory ammo probably exceeds any of the other 6.5s, something that has to be important for you.

As far as long-range shooting goes, I frequent the Original Pennsylvania 1,000 Yard Benchrest Club near Trout Run, PA (just north of Williamsport off Exit 14 of US15) where the go-to rounds these days are the newer 6mm ones (6GT, 6mm Dasher, etc.) unless the wind is blowing, at which time the 300 Winchester Short Magnum rules the roost. In fact, the world record 10-round group was shot at that club using that cartridge. The 300 Winchester Magnum is not even in the conversation there - too much recoil and barrel erosion. Those guys and gals don't want to spend the time and money developing the best handload recipe only to have to start over when they have to change barrels frequently.

I have an early second generation Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5CM for which I handload. I don't shoot really long-range with it so I use 120- and 140-grain bullets in it. It shoots both with equally good accuracy, recoils very softly and is fun to shoot. The Ruger might represent the best value in PRs at this time - it might no longer be the best but like the 6.5CM, it still does its job well. Attached are photos of five-shot 100-yard groups shot with it.

There are a lot of choices in rifles these days - too many, almost - but that's a good problem to have.

Ed

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7.62x51 is not a 1000-yd cartridge in any rifle. At best, it's a 600-700yd cartridge, where after, its bullet becomes trans sonic and loses its accuracy. If want to use .308 bullets, you'll need to go into the magnums. There are a number of 6.5mm and 7mm cartridges that are usually still supersonic at 1000yd. If you are going to be a serious 1000yd shooter, you'll need a specialized action on your rifle for it to allow your riflescope to have sufficient vertical adjustment. You also have to get into benchrest quality handloading.
 

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7.62x51 is not a 1000-yd cartridge in any rifle.
Baloney.

In my RPR 175 grain bullets are supersonic past 1,000 yards and 185 grains bullets are supersonic past 1200 yards.

You might want to learn about ballistics instead of spouting Internet platitudes.

you'll need a specialized action on your rifle for it to allow your riflescope to have sufficient vertical adjustment.
Action doesn't have anything to do with it, the scope mount does.
 

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There are so many great cartridges for long range steel now, most of which are better then 308. 7mm and 6.5 bullets have better BCs than 30 cal, therefore, they kick less and they shoot flatter with less wind drift than 308. If you do not reload, I would stick with a 7mm-08, 260 Rem or 6.5 CM because ammo is made by several companies. You may not get the best groups with factory ammo, but it will still be fun. I have a 6.5X47Lapua it is silly accurate, less than 1/2MOA past 1,000 yds with reloads and I am not a real good rifle shot.......

For a factory (<$1,500) rifle, Tikka is probably the best. RPR is good also, but a custom rifle can be had for $3,000-$3500.

A good scope for 1,000 yds will be at least $2k and you will need lots of other gear, rangefinder, bags, bipod, etc.
 

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I have been in the shop looking for pistol and shotgun powder, but I think I was talking to his son?

I dont have much interest in reloading rifle rounds. That might change, but I doubt it. I don't even want to compete. In my course I actually like being the spotter just as much as the shooter. No rangefinders used in the course, had to measure the mils of a know dimension target and get the range that way. I was usually within 5 or 10 yards of actual range 800 yards and beyond. It was the mental aspect of long range shooting that was appealing, but being the trigger man was fun too. I would need a lot more practice reading the wind to be good 800 plus yards.
You were most likely talking to Jason, and yes, he is Lester’s son. They are all very knowledgeable.

After reading a few more posts on your thread, .308 is probably a good choice. Lots of options on guns, tons of aftermarket accessories, and pretty easy to find reliable ammo. A friend did just that, bought a .308, does most of his practice with it, and saves his hunting rifles and ammo for when he is actually pursuing game.

Throw a good optic on top and you should be all set.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The interesting thing was that I had never fired a scoped rifle in my life before the course. I read a book, but showed up at the course knowing little and having no experience. I had never shot at anything more than 100 yards with iron sights. After 5 days with rented equipment, a head shot at 600 yards was easy, even when it was inside a shot up old pickup truck and I had to mil out the range using the tire rim. I should have gotten geared up right after the course while what I learned was still fresh, before I forgot a bunch. But life got in the way.
 

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The interesting thing was that I had never fired a scoped rifle in my life before the course. I read a book, but showed up at the course knowing little and having no experience. I had never shot at anything more than 100 yards with iron sights. After 5 days with rented equipment, a head shot at 600 yards was easy, even when it was inside a shot up old pickup truck and I had to mil out the range using the tire rim. I should have gotten geared up right after the course while what I learned was still fresh, before I forgot a bunch. But life got in the way.
As said, with the right equipment, shooting at long range isn't the great difficulty, "only ninjas can do it", that some people like to make it out to be.

The difficulty comes in doping the wind.
 

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Baloney.

In my RPR 175 grain bullets are supersonic past 1,000 yards and 185 grains bullets are supersonic past 1200 yards.

You might want to learn about ballistics instead of spouting Internet platitudes.



Action doesn't have anything to do with it, the scope mount does.
Can I assume you are reloading that 7.62 x 51? What powder are you using and how much of it? What pressures?
What bullets are you using again? Never heard of a RPR bullet, and I've been reloading metallic since the mid60s. I've heard of the Ruger Precision Rifle. In fact, I have one in 6.5CM. Those pills and velocity you are citing at those ranges sound more like they're coming out of a 300WinMag or bigger. Thinking may be even heavier pills... like 200+gr. I agree doping the wind is a challenge, and so is mirage.
 

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7.62x51 is not a 1000-yd cartridge in any rifle. At best, it's a 600-700yd cartridge, where after, its bullet becomes trans sonic and loses its accuracy. If want to use .308 bullets, you'll need to go into the magnums. There are a number of 6.5mm and 7mm cartridges that are usually still supersonic at 1000yd. If you are going to be a serious 1000yd shooter, you'll need a specialized action on your rifle for it to allow your riflescope to have sufficient vertical adjustment. You also have to get into benchrest quality handloading.
A lot of f class shooters using 185 gr. juggernauts and heavier would sure disagree!
 
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