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Discussion Starter #1
OK,Need the geniuses here to answer the pressure dilema with low powder loads.My problem is,trying 3/4 oz. load using Promo powder.Alliant chart says 20gr red dot.I called and asked about Promo and was told it had the same properties as red dot.That's solved.I just want to know why the increase in powder,using Promo for 7/8 loads I have shot 16gr to 17gr.Talking to alliant rep,he didn't suggest dropping from 20gr because that's a big drop.I figured the worst could happen was a blooper,however he suggested that it was possible that to little powder could cause a blow up as bad as too much powder.Thank goodness I only loaded two boxes while waiting for e-mail reply,got antsy so I called.A person in my laague said I probably could go below the 16gr,this was info gathered before call to alliant.

OK,,Gurus,,can anyone here explain what alliant said about low powder loads.here's the loads I have in the 2 boxes

winchester 12 gauge hull
CB 0175 wads
Fed 209 primers
16.7 gr Promo powder

Any help will be appreciated.

Doug H.(Pa)
 

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He was talking about powder detonation, instead of the powder burning at a normal rate it all goes at once, creating a sonic wave and mass destruction. HMB
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks I think HMB,but,I went to Claybusters site,and guess what? Red dot info suggests 15.5-17.3gr.Being Promo has same qualities,I do believe I'm safe at 16.7..Thanks for any input and thanks to Bob who I bought wads from suggesting claybusters site.rah0713 is good to deal with

Doug H.(Pa)
 

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He suggested that detonation was possible, but left out the fact that detonation in a plastic shotshell with a plastic wad on top of the powder, has never ever been proven, never documented, nor will it ever be.

A shotshell is not a metallic cartridge, nor is it a metallic gasoline engine.

And, a 12ga shotgun has a massive .725+ hole in front of the shot column to relieve pressure. Furthermore, where could the pressure possibly come from to exceed the yield strength of the receiver with "to little powder"?

To much powder or to much shot,, now that's a whole different animal. And so is thin chamber walls and poor design..
 

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Shot shell detonation only exists in hmb's fantasies. Too little powder will not cause damage. A "sonic wave" cannot be created from burning powder without magic.
 

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It's unlikely The factory will give you bad information, they create and test their products before they release load recommendations to the public.

The manufacturer will have gathered more data about their products they make than any aftermarket wad supplier. I'm more inclined to go by the factory recommendations because there's lot more than just pressure involved in determining how a load will behave.

Surfer
 

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Johnny,

Did you read what the Alliant Rep. said? "to little powder could cause a blow up as bad as too much powder." What do you think he was referring too? Sounds like detonation to me. HMB
 

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I have loaded and shot at least 1000 rounds using 15.5 grains Promo. in a AA HS hull with Winchester 209 primers and claybuster 0175 and 3/4 oz 8 1/2 and have not had a single issue, that is my favorite 12 gauge load, nice light recoil and breaks everything I shoot at (with proper aim).........Joe
 

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Yes, what huntinjoe said. I have used this exact load for skeet since last spring with no problems. It should produce about 1150 fps.
 

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Hello Folks,

Here is some test loads we ran with 3/4 oz load back in 2008.


Thanks

Kevin




Test date: 2/2/2008 Shell Temp 70 degrees


Rem. Gun Clubs (once fired)


17.1 grains Alliant Red Dot


XXL Orange Wad


322.1 Grains Eagle #8 Shot


Lot One: Above Components with a Winchester 209


LOT # XFL714

Pressure Velocity

1) 7230 / 1258 High

2) 6430 / 1246


3) 6980 / 1251

4) 6870 / 1248

5) 6130 / 1216 Low

Ave. Pressure 6728

Velocity Ave. 1243 / ES (Extreme Spread) 42 / SD 16
************************************


Lot 2: Above Components with a Cheddite. 209


LOT NUMBER CX 2000 31/2/012


Pressure Velocity


1) 6770 / 1252 High


2) 6550 / 1222


3) 6630 / 1248


4) 6170 / 1215 Low


5) 6500 / 1240


Ave. Pressure


6524


Velocity


Ave. 1235 / ES. 37 / SD. 16


**********************************


Lot 3: Lot 2: Above Components with a Federal 209 A


LOT # BJ 059(THE B IS BACKWARDS)


Pressure Velocity


1) 7220 / 1287


2) 7720 / 1318 High


3) 7530 / 1287


4) 7900 / 1296


5) 7590 / 1275 Low


Ave. Pressure


7592


Velocity


Ave.1292 / ES 43 SD16


_____________________________
 

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CUT AND PASTE FROM 12/21/2010

Hello Folks,



If the over powder cup is clean when you open up the breaks. It happened down the barrel. (Your powder / primer / crimp was not correct)

If it is dirty. It happened at the moment the primer set the powder off, the wad failed.

Pressure trace with a shallow crimp .025 and cold weather.

This caused the wads over powder cup to break. Notice the first high spike then the pressure drop. Then spike back up.

Some primers, won't light some powders when they are cold!

Only a Fed 209A will light Red Dot with a 3/4 oz. 12 load below 35 degrees with a .055 crimp, every time.

Kevin @ 402-463-3415
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Wow,thanks all,especially Downrange.Got to try and get some of your wads.S.E.Pa. doesn't seem to have anyone that carrys them.Wish I could order them direct but I'm sure there's dealer problems with that.

Doug H.(Pa.)
 
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