[Jim Porter]

Shot in Memphis last Sunday. GREAT people and ALWAYS well managed!
Walked down to watch the last squad shoot doubles.
Bang Bang, Bang Bang, Bang Bang--WHOOM! WHOOM!, bang bang.
A young teen ager that weighed all of about 120lbs, shooting a XT Browning was shooting AA Sporting Clay 1300 fps loads. And that was his third hundred for the day!
I TRIED to talk to mom and dad about what they were sending their son out to shoot. A friend also told them that the shells were illegal in ATA competition.
Dad grinned ear to ear and said "But he just loves those AA shells". Thinking back, I suspect that he didn't know there is more than one loading in AA offerings.
Young man comes off the line with a beet red cheek.
I will bet dollars to donuts that he will not be shooting after this year because it hurts every time he pulls the trigger.
Of course Dad was making hand motions telling son how to move and break doubles targets. And I strongly suspect he has never shot at a clay target.
End result--we lose a young shooter because of unwillingness to listen to those who have been shooting for twenty years or read a rule book.
What do you do??
SAD!
My Best
Jim

 

[flashmax]

What do you do??

Disqualify the kid for shooting big shells outside ATA rules. It WAS an ATA shoot wasn’t it?

 

[Trap60]

Shot in Memphis last Sunday. GREAT people and ALWAYS well managed!
Walked down to watch the last squad shoot doubles.
Bang Bang, Bang Bang, Bang Bang--WHOOM! WHOOM!, bang bang.
A young teen ager that weighed all of about 120lbs, shooting a XT Browning was shooting AA Sporting Clay 1300 fps loads. And that was his third hundred for the day!
I TRIED to talk to mom and dad about what they were sending their son out to shoot. A friend also told them that the shells were illegal in ATA competition.
Dad grinned ear to ear and said "But he just loves those AA shells". Thinking back, I suspect that he didn't know there is more than one loading in AA offerings.
Young man comes off the line with a beet red cheek.
I will bet dollars to donuts that he will not be shooting after this year because it hurts every time he pulls the trigger.
Of course Dad was making hand motions telling son how to move and break doubles targets. And I strongly suspect he has never shot at a clay target.
End result--we lose a young shooter because of unwillingness to listen to those who have been shooting for twenty years or read a rule book.
What do you do??
SAD!
My Best
Jim

Have seen similar results lately, young kid shooting “handicap” loads on 16yd.
His parent had been advised there’s no need to beat him up with heavy recoil,
also after being fitted his cheek piece got very rapidly moved back to center
so he could lay his head over crooked. Yet they wonder why his scores aren’t
improving beyond the 19-21/25 level he started at

 

[entropy]

We had parents buying duck loads for 4-H Trap! Add that to Dad's 14.5" LOP 30" barrel duck gun being a little more than 11year old Johnny can handle, and Dad calling him a pu**y when he complains, it's a sure recipe for failure. I would try the nice approach with the Dads and offer the kid a box of my Trap loads, and success or failure usually hinged on his response. If they were OK with that, I'd recommend they try the 20 ga. auto we had for a club gun. If they allowed the kid to shoot that (some didn't, because, machismo.) the kid usually shot much better. I sent more than one Dad packing because he'd refuse to cooperate. (That's how I learned and that's how my son will learn!) I'd tell the kid to try to get Mom to bring them next week.
I had two HS kids shooting Nitro 27's and crushing targets with them, but they were seniors, and shot Beretta autos.

 

[Doc!]

Jim and I have talked about this and have been dealing with it for, what Jim, 25 years. I have worked with kids a long time (not as long as Jim as he is wayyyyy older than me).
We meet with the moms and dads and try to explain that in this game horsepower does not substitute for ability and practice and coaching and willingness to be coachable. Maybe in drag racing horsepower can overcome a slow reaction time - but not in this game.
I particularly remember a young lady 4H'er at their State Champ event, shooting dad's A5 humpback and being knocked back off the pad at each shot- come to find out she was shooting Nitro-Sporting loads (Jim probably remembers her, she would beat the boys because they were all looking at her when they were suppose to be shooting) . Often when mom and dad go to Wal Mart to get shells (back in the day when they were well stocked), we would tell them to go low on the shelf and get the low powered cheap stuff.....but when they get to the store they see sitting on the upper shelf "Nitro" or "Super Handicap" (sounds cool) costing more therefore they have to be better and they want their kids to do well........ little do they know they were ruining the kid.
I cannot count the times I have talked to parents about that very topic.
I do not work much with kids now but a trick I started doing while I was doing it was to gather all the shooters around me with their parents and other coaches from other teams, etc. Standing on the 27 yard line I would proceed to shoot and and break targets with every different shell I could get my hands on -- 1 ounce cheap stuff 1/1/8 cheap stuff --- right on up to the slobber-knockers. Often you would see the lights come con in their eyes when they actually saw that a light shell would actually break the targets.

I do not have the solution, but I have seen more than one kid turned off from shooting because of unnecessary recoil and unnecessary face beating from heavy loads in a poorly fit gun. Keep trying to drill it into their heads I guess.

 

[blackandgold]

Jim and I have talked about this and have been dealing with it for, what Jim, 25 years. I have worked with kids a long time (not as long as Jim as he is wayyyyy older than me).
We meet with the moms and dads and try to explain that in this game horsepower does not substitute for ability and practice and coaching and willingness to be coachable. Maybe in drag racing horsepower can overcome a slow reaction time - but not in this game.
I particularly remember a young lady 4H'er at their State Champ event, shooting dad's A5 humpback and being knocked back off the pad at each shot- come to find out she was shooting Nitro-Sporting loads (Jim probably remembers her, she would beat the boys because they were all looking at her when they were suppose to be shooting) . Often when mom and dad go to Wal Mart to get shells (back in the day when they were well stocked), we would tell them to go low on the shelf and get the low powered cheap stuff.....but when they get to the store they see sitting on the upper shelf "Nitro" or "Super Handicap" (sounds cool) costing more therefore they have to be better and they want their kids to do well........ little do they know they were ruining the kid.
I cannot count the times I have talked to parents about that very topic.
I do not work much with kids now but a trick I started doing while I was doing it was to gather all the shooters around me with their parents and other coaches from other teams, etc. Standing on the 27 yard line I would proceed to shoot and and break targets with every different shell I could get my hands on -- 1 ounce cheap stuff 1/1/8 cheap stuff --- right on up to the slobber-knockers. Often you would see the lights come con in their eyes when they actually saw that a light shell would actually break the targets.

I do not have the solution, but I have seen more than one kid turned off from shooting because of unnecessary recoil and unnecessary face beating from heavy loads in a poorly fit gun. Keep trying to drill it into their heads I guess.

It's not just kids. I got a new shooter started. He came with 1 1/8 1300s. Those were too heavy. Went to 1oz 1325. Too heavy. Went down to 1 1/8 1145..
Still too heavy for a light field gun that doesn't fit at all and horrible form.

The last 6 times he's come with 1 1/8 1145s. Slow learner I guess. I've sent him picture of what a 1oz 1200fps box looks like but he can't figure it out. Oh well, I'll send him to sporties. They do stupid stuff over there.

 

[West]

If someone is shooting illegal shells it is time to get management involved.

I don't offer advice unless its asked for. Most don't seem to appreciate it no matter how well meaning. I think we drive as many people away with well meaning unsolicited advice as does excessive recoil.

I have been a "AAA" singles shooter for a long time. Whenever someone approaches me and asks what choke I use for singles , I tell them "I use a full choke from 16-27 yards." Their usual response is my modified boils them @ 16 yards. I smile and give them a thumbs up.

Same thing with shells, I explain I like light 8's and more often these days 1 ounce and the reasons why. They come back with some blah blah blah about how well their rhino rollers smoke targets. Again I just smile.

And these are folks who have sought me out for my words of wisdom. LOL

Its All Good

West

 

[The Canuck]

It's like talking to a brick wall so don't waste your breath unless you are approached and asked what you use or recommend. And yes the mothers are the ones to talk to. They listen.

 

[saskbooknut]

My experience is that Mother/Daughter or Mother/Son are more receptive to advice in shooting.

 

[Tmx199]

We had a smaller kid with a 20ga 870 shooting 6s heavy loads 5 shots we gave him a box of light 8s he was done after one round. His dad said thats what we shot. We tell the kids and parents about light loads and they have listened! Heavy loads are no fun. I shoot them for Helice and after 20 shots I'm good. Some people will never learn

 

[Abolt243]

I loaded some 7/8 oz loads for a couple of my nephews that had gotten some field guns for Christmas. They went town and bought the 3 1/4 dram, 1 1/4 oz hunting loads and tried to shoot clays off a backyard trap. One box between them and they were done. Gave them several boxes of light 7/8 oz and they were able to learn to mount, and shoot. Told them to go to town and buy the slowest 1 oz stuff the could find to plink with. They were ecstatic! And did much better.

 

[Velvet Ears]

I about fainted the other day. I actually had a new kid parent buy an actual trap gun I recommended instead of a cheap field gun. We somewhat regulate their shells by selling them the Federal program shells at cost.

 

[KS-5 Spec.]

Just tell them, "That is one way to toughen up your kid". That 's better than a beating at home.

 

[slide action]

A LOT of the problem stems from Parents. I HOPE the kid in question will be corrected BEFORE he gets booted from a serious ATA event ! If he keeps doing it, it will happen SOONER than later ! Once informed there is no excuse for any continued rules violations ! Somebody in Shoot Mgt. needs to take him and DAD aside and explain the deal ! I would hate to see the kid suffer because his father is a DA !! As far as recoil goes , I don't know how many times I have seen clueless Dads, Husbands , or Boy friends try and push Super Heavy loads on some young or lady shooter ! I always keep extra light 1 oz. loads and offer them for them to try . If my wife is with me ,I let her make the offer . Sometimes Mr. "know it all" will refuse but ,often They allow it and the young or lady shooter is very happy with the results. I suppose the "MORE IS BETTER" crowd will always be among us but ,those butt kicking loads have run off Scores of potential shooters due to the ignorance of those who have little or NO knowledge of target shooting !

 

[Shooting Coach]

Have seen the same thing, and often, it is the only shell that can be found. I was told to turn a blind eye unless Hunting or Waterfowl loads with big shot were on the line.

OTOH, some folks take the Music Television (MTV) approach; Bigger is Better.

 

[flashmax]

Have seen the same thing, and often, it is the only shell that can be found. I was told to turn a blind eye unless Hunting or Waterfowl loads with big shot were on the line.

OTOH, some folks take the Music Television (MTV) approach; Bigger is Better.

That’s all well and good until you turn that blind eye away during a registered tournament that has explicit rules. Turning that blind eye makes YOU a rule violater as well.

 

[Trap60]

If bigger was better then I’d have been AAA27AAA 7waitimg on the mythical 30 yd line over 20 years ago

 

[Mark uhri]

Totally agree. Most could do with low noise, low recoil. And shoot a lot better. I have them shoot 1oz when I can find them.

 

[rapid86]

A LOT of the problem stems from Parents. I HOPE the kid in question will be corrected BEFORE he gets booted from a serious ATA event ! If he keeps doing it, it will happen SOONER than later ! Once informed there is no excuse for any continued rules violations ! Somebody in Shoot Mgt. needs to take him and DAD aside and explain the deal ! I would hate to see the kid suffer because his father is a DA !! As far as recoil goes , I don't know how many times I have seen clueless Dads, Husbands , or Boy friends try and push Super Heavy loads on some young or lady shooter ! I always keep extra light 1 oz. loads and offer them for them to try . If my wife is with me ,I let her make the offer . Sometimes Mr. "know it all" will refuse but ,often They allow it and the young or lady shooter is very happy with the results. I suppose the "MORE IS BETTER" crowd will always be among us but ,those butt kicking loads have run off Scores of potential shooters due to the ignorance of those who have little or NO knowledge of target shooting !

And then the morons laugh about it. I can't think of a better way to achieve celibacy, maybe for a long while.

 

[murphranch]

We had parents buying duck loads for 4-H Trap! Add that to Dad's 14.5" LOP 30" barrel duck gun being a little more than 11year old Johnny can handle, and Dad calling him a pu**y when he complains, it's a sure recipe for failure. I would try the nice approach with the Dads and offer the kid a box of my Trap loads, and success or failure usually hinged on his response. If they were OK with that, I'd recommend they try the 20 ga. auto we had for a club gun. If they allowed the kid to shoot that (some didn't, because, machismo.) the kid usually shot much better. I sent more than one Dad packing because he'd refuse to cooperate. (That's how I learned and that's how my son will learn!) I'd tell the kid to try to get Mom to bring them next week.
I had two HS kids shooting Nitro 27's and crushing targets with them, but they were seniors, and shot Beretta autos.

I see that same thing too often. High brass #5 pheasant loads from a dedicated turkey gun was the last example I had to deal with.


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