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Discussion Starter #1
I have an idea for a non-lethal weapon. It will need to be fired at moderate to low speeds, much less than normal shotshell speeds - my guess is 200-400 fps muzzle velocity. I want to shoot a light cork or rubber ball at those speeds. That's not all there is to this idea, but it's the start.

I'm sure this is trial and error, but does anyone have any ideas about how to load a 12 ga. shell to shoot a ball, say 1/4 oz. (+/-) at 200-400 fps?

I guess loading a wad and powder with no shot would be a good way to start? I'm worried about the ball not making it out of the barrel, with resultant problems, if the pressure is too low. I don't remember hearing of a barrel exploding when an underloaded shell fired. Doesn't the problem happen with the subsequent firing?

Danny
 

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The bean bag rounds that I have chronographed are in the neighboorhood of 300fps. 1300 fps would penetrate like a slug. I don't know what type or weight of powder to use to reach those lower velocities.
 

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I believe Rem31TC is correct. The bean bag rounds are in the 300-400fps range. Any higher than that and they would penetrate. We used them in the Wisconsin Correctional system. We also tested a unique 12 gauge round that upon contact with a target would discharge either pepper spray or mace. We never, to my knowledge, ever utilized these non lethal rounds. Most of our non-lethal choices were limited to chemical agents, batons and tasers. Ed
 

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Armor Holdings and a couple other companies already manufacture 12 ga and 37mm rounds with single and multiple rubber ball rounds, wooden "baton" rounds, foam projectiles and the "bean bag" rounds in addition to several other types of specialty rounds that deliver things such as powdered or liquid OC (pepper spray compounds) and so on. Velocities are usually in the 300 fps area and they are rather pricey. I don't see the average person outside law enforcement having much use for them. Not that they can't or wouldn't use them but they have a very limited use window and require a lot of help around to make them effective.
 

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rubber bullets are leathel,,,made to be bounced off the ground ,,,not fired at induvidule,,,,leg hits to dispurse crouds,,,,paint balls filled with pepper type ,,,break to easy in gun,,,,harder shells need to much velocity to break,,,much research has allready been done,,,,,most with great on paper results and very poor real world results
 

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Discussion Starter #6
OK, I guess to further the discussion some, I have to tell you my idea. It's not to use non-lethal projectiles. I want to build a bolo that can be fired from a "gun" of some sort. A small, .410 sized double gun that could fire two orbs of some kind with a "string" attached could be used to immobilize perps by police.

This idea came to me after watching an incident not long ago. A man with a knife was retreating from several officers who had weapons drawn. The man was certainly a threat to the officers, but would have been less a threat with legs locked together. The man was shot multiple times and killed by the officers.

Imagine if officers had a chance (at least) to bring down an unarmed perp fleeing on foot.

I know this might be highly impractical, but I have to get it out of my system.

Danny
 

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I think I remember seeing (at one time) a "net" that was shot from some sort of gun to envelope an assailant.

Hawk,
 

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Hello dmarbell,

Kinda, been there done that.

If I remember correct. Green Dot, 4.0 to 4.5 grains will move a bag filled with 1 1/8oz. #10 shot 410 fps. But will not carry very far and drops fast! Also you can buy a shell with 2 rubber ball and a cord between them (bolo).


If you build a "test gun make sure it over 18 inches, or you may spend some time explaining just what your up to a few concerned officers!

Kevin @ 402-463-3415
 

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When I was just a teenager I experimented with a less-than-lethal shotgun round. I took a standard 12 gauge shell and dumped the shot out, I then took a standard wax candle and pushed it into the wad and cut of the extra and re-crimped the shell. In my garage we had an old refrigerator (1960's vintage). I stood about 20 feet away and fired at the door of the refrigerator. The wax "bullet" disintegrated on impact and left a 2" wide by 3/4" deep dent in the door. Any idea's what it would have done to a human shot in the chest?

Hawk,
 

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If the man was "retreating" from the officers, how can he be a threat to them?

If you meant advancing toward them, then I agree he was a threat and deserved to be shot dead.

Jason
 

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I think they need to come up with the "Skunk" round! Not even mother natures finest can stand that smell!! I dont care how you deliver that load, if the dude keeps comin ? then just um dead. NO ONE, could say the stinky bast$#@ wasn't duly warned.

just a thought


DDC
 
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