Trapshooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,110 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello All,

For Your Viewing Pleasure..

Original Photos from the civil war...as it was told to me when I recieved them...

I hope it keeps you occupied for a while, on this very cold Snowy Winter Day!

Thanks and Enjoy,

Stu

Stu Gabriel (MrGun)

____________________________________________________________________________


























































































































































 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Thank you for these pictures. I thought that I've seen most CW pictures but you have a few that I've never seen before. It would be fun to have a contest on naming them and I think I could do pretty good. But, SF SGM is the TS.com in resident CW expert and I'm sure he would beat me hands down. FYI... the reason that there aren't an over abundance of CW photos available is that someone figured after the war that the original negative glass plates would make terrific windows for greenhouses. Therefore that's what most of them were used for.

blade819
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
Blade,
Don't think I can name some of the structures but the majority of the others I can identify. Here is the link to the Library of Congress website, they have the largest collection and yes, they are identified..

loc.gov

Just scroll thought it for civil war photos or just google civil war photos and go to the loc website.

Van
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,158 Posts
Don't you have two pics of Edgar Allen Poe?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
The picture of the road with the stone wall on its left is the Sunken Road at Fredericksburg, Virginia where Burnsides squandered thousands of his troops, sending them repeatedly against the Confederates stationed behind this wall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
Wahoo,
You are correct with the location, but this photo was taken after the second battle of Fredericksburg, May of 1863. The dead are Confederates, part of Longstreet's Corps. The rest of the ANV was down the road around a little town called Chancellorsville.

Van
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,980 Posts
Thank you for posting the photos. The thing that jumped out at me was how small most of the people were compared to today.
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
j2jake...No he means short. If you ever get a chance to visit any plantations or Charleston or Savannah, the first thing you'll notice is that the doorknobs were placed in the doors about 6 inches to 1 foot lower than today's. Van can probably answer this question. What was the average height of an American male in the 1860's? I suspect about 5'6" was average. Occasionally you'll get taller ones like GA Custer who I believe was 5'11" tall.

blade819
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,408 Posts
People were generally much shorter back then. I have trouble believing Custer was close to 6ft tall as always stated. I saw one of his buckskin suits on display at the Bighorn museum. I thought it was for a little kid. I ask the Park employee giving a talk on the battle about the suit and she said that it was genuine. She thought he was about 5'2". He was a small man. I suspect his height has been embellished like everything else about the jerk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
The average height of a Federal soldier was 5'8 1/4" tall, average weight 143 1/4lbs.. This from U.S. army records. One would think the Confederate soldier was the same physically.

Custer was 5'11" tall according to his his records. The uniform at the Big Horn would suggest otherwise. There has been some doubt to its authenticity when I was there in the 1980's. Custer was also sterile due to him catching the clap while at West Point. So that will do away the myth that he fathered children with a Cheyenne woman. Libby was often thought to have had a thing for Bill Hickok. Wild Bill was at Ft.Riley when Custer left his command in the field and returned there stating he was worried about Libby catching the "fever".

Van
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Johnny...you are wrong on two points. The second being your impression of Custer being a "jerk". GA Custer, IMO, was a superb war time tactician/cavalier that ever lived in this country. He had a personal hand in the Federals success at Gettysburg. Enough to be invited to the surrender signing at Appomattox and later the table that was used for the signing was presented to Libby Custer by General Sheridan. He alienated the Grant Administration during the Indian Wars and just about every Northern Officer who he jumped over for promotion was envious including Bentein who may have been the direct cause of the slaughter at Little Big Horn. We'll never no the entire or factual story of Little Big Horn, but it was told to me while there by a Crow Indian descendant. SF SGM worked there and he could provide additions/corrections. Granted Custer went awol to get Libby and was later court martialed, but GA Custer received a bad publicity rap beginning in 1877 and it continues today when in fact he was one of America's greatest wartime heroes that never really was recognized by the US. SG SGM you can jump in here at any time. I have just about every published book about this great Boy General and have come to this conclusion.

blade819
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
Blade,
I can't see how Benteen would be responsible for the defeat of Custer's battalion. As you know, Custer divided his command into the following; Benteen with three companies around the left, Reno with three companies to attack the south end of the village, pack train under Captain McDougal and Custer's battalion of 5 companies. Benteen did as he was ordered but found no his tiles and returned to the main line of march where he found the pack train. Some say he rested and watered the horses for a prolong period of time before resuming the march. He arrived at Reno Hill and took command even though Reno was his senior and the rest as they say is history.

Custer's defeat can be blamed on numerous tactical errors made by himself and others. He under estimated the size of the village to begin with. Charlie Reynolds and Mitch Bouyer both told Custer the size of the village and he did not believe them. Then he divided his force into 4 serperate commands in the face of superior number, Reno failed in his attack on the village, loosing complete command and control of his command. In my humble opinion, Custer was doomed when he saw Reno falling back and continued on with his plan to attack the end of the village. He attempted to cross the Little Big Horn at Medicine a Tail Coulee but was forced backed and this location was not the end of the village but the middle. The five companies with Custer basically fell apart individually.
Some say Custer was killed while crossing the coulee, reference Dr. Thomas Marquis book, "Keep the Last Bullet for Yourself". Libby kept this book from being published while she was alive because of the negative look on her husband and the reference to the number of soldiers who committed suicide, especially C troop under the command of Tom Custer. A great read if you can find a copy of it. He worked on the reservations and talked with the only survivors of the fight, the Indians.

As far as Custer being the premier Cav commander that of course is open for discussion. He definitely did not lead from the rear. Ironically the only Civil War Cav commander tactics studied still the War College was those of N.B. Forrest. It is said that even Rommel studied Forrest.

Van
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Was it not Benteen that Custer hand wrote the "come quickly" note to? Benteen, in hindsight, could have suffered shell shock which may have inhibited him in making rational attack decisions? Benteen was splattered on his face with someone else's blood. Am I correct? I agree with you that Custer underestimated the size of the village. I also believe that his estimate was based solely on "horse dust" and not visible sight of the Indian population by others. I guess by reading all of these books, one can get several versions of the battle. However, I would love to get my hands on a copy of your referenced book. I know Libby made it her life's mission to clear her husbands name from the critics and naysayers. Dare I say that this is relevant even today. Custer never got his due for his accomplishments.

blade819
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
Blade,
You are correct that Custer wrote the note to Benteen, "Benteen, come quick. Big village. P.S. Bring packs".

If you follow Benteen's roué after Custer split his command, you will that he went west, Custer north and Reno up the valley. Benteen ran into Martini, Custer's orderly with the message. Martini could hardly speak or understand English. Benteen asked him where Custer was and he replied that the Indians had "skid addled ". He followed the main roué of March, heard firing and came upon Reno at Reno's Hill. Even though Reno was senior, Benteen took command as Reno had lost complete control during his assault on the village. It was Reno who was splattered with Bloody Knife's blood and brains. Reno failed on his assault and completely lost control. He gave numerous orders, some one after another, like dismount, mount, etc. Then he gave his last order, "If you want to live, follow me". Then led the retreat across the Little Big Horn. This retreat the Indians stated was like a stampeded buffalo herd.

As far as the size of the village, the scouts told him to look at the size of the horse herd. He couldn't see the heard. Boyer according to Varnum that it was the largest village he had ever seen in his 30+ years on the plains.

You also have to remember these things, the 7th was filled with raw recruits, mostly immigrants, Custer had forced marched his command to get there a day ahead of his scheduled date, he was outgunned by the Indians, Cav units loose 25% of its strength when it fights dismounted, there was no famous "Last Stand", the last troopers killed where in a Ravi NE of Last Stand ridge.

Van
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
I stand corrected and thank you. It's a fascinating piece of history that perhaps we'll never really know the facts. I do know that they have conducted digs on Custer's hill and below and have traced the final stand to approximately that area that is marked today. The version that I received from the Crow Guide of course was the Crow's version passed down from descendants of Crow Scouts. I'll look for the book that you referenced earlier for more info. I plan on visiting again next summer if I go to Sturgis.

blade819
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top