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Hello All,

For Your Viewing Pleasure..

Original Photos from the civil war...as it was told to me when I recieved them...

I hope it keeps you occupied for a while, on this very cold Snowy Winter Day!

Thanks and Enjoy,

Stu

Stu Gabriel (MrGun)

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I believe this is the entrance to the Dayton National Cemetery in Dayton, Ohio. I found it on a site of famous cemeteries from the Civil War. Each state is listed with all the military cemeteries with it. This picture is used for the Dayton National Cemetery.
 

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Bob,

I think you are being unreasonable. The "War of Northern Aggression" was fought about "State"s Rights." Everybody knows that. If the Yankees would have just stayed home, there would have been no war although i suppose there would have been no United States either.
 

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The "War of Northern Aggression"? Who fired the first shot? While Southerner's may think it was about states rights, I respectfully disagree. John Brown did not think it was about states rights and his cause and his Harpers Ferry uprising really lit the slavery fire North of the Mason Dixon Line. SF SGM should chime in here and give us his opinion.



blade819
 

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No war is fought over just one cause. This war is no different. To me, having studied it for over 55 years would be the following and in no particular order:

1) Money. In 1840, the total revenue for the U.S. Treasury was 111 million dollars of that, the southern states paid over 93 million in taxes and tariffs. Northern shippers became very rich with those goods imported from Europe for the Southern states.

2) States Rights or plainly put, the 10th Ammendment. The southern states felt the federal government was abusing its power. Sound familiar?

3) Slavery. I do not think the institution of slavery was a primary cause but the expansion of it into the new states. Remember, prior to the war, states were admitted in pairs, one free, one slave. This kept the power in the Senate equal. To try and keep the population discrepancy equal, they passed the 3/5ths rule, for every 5 slaves, it counted as 3 whites when it came to determining the House. Still, northern states still controlled both houses. If slavery was the "main" issue, then all the southern states had to do was ratify the Corwin Ammendment which legalized slavery. Congress had ratified in Marvh of 1861 along with 3 northern states. Lincoln was in favor of it and said so in his first inaugural address.

4) who and where was the first shot really fired? Anybody know the correct answer?

Van
 

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For those interested, here is some interesting facts on Federal soldiers. Sadly, due to the loss of Confederate records, the same data is not available for them:

There were 127 Northern soldiers recorded as being age 13; 330 age I4; 773 age 15; 2758 age 16; 6425 age 17; 133,475 age 18; 90,215 age 19; 71,058 age 20; 97,136 age 21. From there on it gradually went down to 7012 age 45; 967 age 46; and 2366 age 50 or over.
As to physical characteristics, the average height of the Federal soldier was put at 5 feet, 8¼ inches. The tallest man authentically recorded was said to be Capt. Van Buskirk of the Twenty-seventh Indiana, who stood 6 feet, 10½ inches. The shortest man as far as records go was a member of the 192nd Ohio, and at the age of 24 he measured 3 feet, 4 inches in height.
Incomplete records indicate the average weight was 143¼ pounds. About 13 per cent had black hair, 25 per cent dark hair, 30 per cent brown, 24 per cent light, 4 per cent sandy, 3 per cent red, and 1 per cent gray hair. Forty-five per cent of the Yankees had blue eyes, 24 per cent gray, 13 per cent hazel, 10 per cent dark, and 8 per cent black.
In prewar occupations some 48 per cent of the Yankees were farmers, 24 per cent mechanics, 16 per cent laborers, 5 per cent in "commercial pursuits," 3 per cent professional men, and 4 per cent miscellaneous.
As to nativity of Northerners, basing the Army on a total of 2,000,000, about three fourths were native Americans. Of the 500,000 foreign-born, about 175,000 were from Germany, 150,000 from Ireland, 50,000 from England, 50,000 from British America, and 75,000 from other countries.

Van
 

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SF SGM, the Star of the West was fired on by students of the South Carloina Military Academy some three months prior to the bombardment of Ft Sumpter, which most often is touted as the beginning of the War of Northern Aggression. Jake
 

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You are correct that the Star of the West, which was a contracted steamer, was fired upon the cadets of the Citadel. Van thank you for those stats. Very interesting. I leave for Silver Dollar next week and will take most of my library to re-read and ingest.

blade819
 

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Jake,
Congrats 1SG, you are correct...it was not the Citadel at that time, as Jake stated, it was the South Carolina Military Academy..

Some historians also claim that in January 1861, Federal forces and Confederate forces around Ft. Pickens, exchanged fire between two rowboats. The reported single casualty was. federal pet dog dog who reportedly jumped overboard and was listed as MIA...

Van
 

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blade,

My comment that "The "War of Northern Aggression" was fought about "State"s Rights. was a joke. Sorry I didn't make it more obvious. And yes, the primary, notice I said primary, reason was slavery.

Any reputable historian will tell you that in deciphering history, it is alway desirable to go to original source material. In the case of the American Civil War, I believe the best original source materials are the newspaper editorials published in the South before secession and most importantly the Declarations of Secession issued by each State as the stated their reasons for succession.

Perhaps the newspaper editors were just trying to sell newspapers. I think they really believed what they were writing. The Southern legislators who wrote and published their Declarations surely must have believed what they were writing. They knew that destroying the Union was a momentous step and they wanted to justify it.

I am not going to publish either the then current newspaper articles or the Declarations. They are easily available on the web. I will only say, that they are all about slavery and it's importance to the Southern economy and way of life. And, that certainly included expansion into new territories.

It is noteworthy that there was at least one important "State Right", declared by many Northern States which the the South angrily condemned. That right was exercised by some Northern States that didn't like the Fugitive Slave Act. According to Federal law, all States were required to attempt to apprehend lost or stolen property (slaves) and return them to their rightful owners. Many Norther States said, "We have the right to enforce that law as we see fit" and in fact refused to enforce the law.

Now inevitably someone will post that "History is written by the winners". That is usually true, but not in the case of the Civil War. Over time and certainly not at the time, it became a States Rights issue and the War of Northern Aggression. In the South it is reasonable that this would happen. After all by the early 1900's, even the most ardent Southerner was unlikely to say "My father, brother, etc fought to defend the right of the South to own slaves. Too embarrassing and not PC And, that was even more true going forward in the 1900's. They had to come up with something more PC. And yes I know that most Southerners did not own slaves.

It is important to remember that with the exception of "legal ownership", over time many Southern States and parts of some Northern ones recreated the circumstances of slavery.

Van,

I am still reading. I will be in touch.
 

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Slavery in any form is evil. Slavery existed long before the discovery of the Americas.

Without sugar, cotton, tobacco, coffee and other crops, IMO there would have been a lot less slavery in America.

Slavery was prominent in the North as well as the South at the time of the American Revolution.

History cannot be changed. The concept that "All men are created equal" is valid.

What made the American Civil War so deadly was the dedication and patriotism of the soldiers on each side of the conflict.

Feudalism was the law of the land in Europe up until the middle ages. Under Feudalism, people (peasants and serfs) were bound to the land and were chattel property of their lords.

My mom, her family and most of her village in Poland were forced into slavery. Between 1939 and 1942, she was forced to work as a bricklayer and later as a seamstress in the Soviet labor camp at Barnaul, Siberia. Many people including the guards perished from disease, extreme cold, and lack of food, clothing, sanitary facilities, medical attention and overwork. Their ordeal began in the middle of the night where they were forced to board a train for a 6000 mile trip from Poland, to the Pacific Ocean and then down to Barnaul. The factories they built are now part of one of the largest arms factories in the world.

My wife is part Cherokee. How many people know of the Trail of Tears and the attempts to eradicate Native Americans after the Civil War?

I am from Kentucky. Kentucky was the birthplace of both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis. Federal troops occupied the state capital in Frankfort, KY to keep Kentucky from joining the Confederacy. Kentucky is one of the 13 stars in “Old Dixie”, the Confederate Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.

Ed Ward
 

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Traders... many thanks for your info. Van and I have been exchanging info about my wife's Uncle (three times removed)who was with the Florida 1st Calvary and captured and sent to an island prison on an island in Lake Erie. I'm presently reading a compilation of history and personal letters about his career. I am always trying to intake CW History.

School Teacher...My bloodline goes into Augusta Poland and we had many "DP" friends in Northern Indiana when I was growing up who were confined in the "Warsaw Ghetto". This entire topic of course becomes very personal with me. Also, The Trail of Tears actually began before the CW around 1831. President Andrew Jackson, who by the way had many illegitimate Cherokee children, was the main culprit I believe. I have ridden the Trail of Tears motorcycle rally that begins in Cherokee NC (Chattanooga officially) and ends in Oklahoma. Since I now live so close, that becomes personal also.

IMO, people in this country, when paying attention or sympathizing for individual rights, need to become aware of the genocide that America committed against the Native Americans. Unfortunately the after effects are still felt today. What a crime!

blade819
 

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Traders,
Of the 11 ordinances of secession passed by the state conventions, I can find only two which references slavery and those two reference the "slaveholding southern states". Alabama references "domestic institutions" which is a reference to slavery by some. Most are simple and to the point some go into great detail, these are the last to,leave especially Kentucky and North Carolina.

Perhaps in my old age I have overlooked references to slavery in these ordinances. Either way, always nice to have your views.

Van
 

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Blade619:

My mom lived on her parents farm in pre-WWII Poland. The farm was located east of the Bug River, a tributary of the Vistula. The Bug River was the dividing line between German Wehrmacht and Russian Red Army forces following the 1939 invasion of Poland in the Second World War. When the Russians arrived, my grandparents, mother and aunt were forced by into forced labor in Siberia.


Warsaw was east of the Bug River and under German control. My mom and her family were Catholic but had Jewish friends who lived in Warsaw. Most of these perished at the hands of the Germans. One family who my mom knew immigrated to the United States before the outbreak of the war. My mom would visit with the daughter here in Louisville, KY until she passed away in 2008. This person had many photographs of her family who remained in Poland. None survived the war.

Ed Ward.
 

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Van,

I have just reread the Declaration of Secession of South Carolina. It is all about slavery. The document doesn't say it that way. In effect it says, we have left the Union because we want to keep our Southern institutions, which of course meant slavery. You just have to read between the lines. If I remember correctly, several of the other secessionist states actually copied the South Carolina documents. I guess their politicians were lazy.

There is also a specific reference in the SC document that refers to the Fugitive Slave Act. It drove the Souther States nuts, that Northern States were refusing to obey Federal law and hunt down fugitive slaves. Those darn Yankees were exercising their "States Rights". Of course, they were breaking the law.

Blade819

It is very unlikely that the DP's (displaced persons) that you met after the war had been confined in the Warsaw Ghetto. As far as i know only Jews were in the Warsaw Ghetto and very few survived. Those that did largely immigrated illegally to Palestine after the war. After 1948, they became Israeli citizens.

The DP's that you met were most likely refugees of many different religions and nationalities that just want to get out of Europe. They had lost everything. The joke at the time was a DP goes into a travel agency in Europe and says he wants travel to a very distant place. The agent recommends Australia. The DP responds, "Not far enough, Don't you have something farther"

Immediately after the war, i lived in a lower middle class section of town. We had many refugees in our neighborhood. We never used the word DP. It was insulting.
 

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Traders... my recollection of course is a childhood memory. I do know that these very close family friends were both injured by the Nazi's and both had scares. They came over separately. Yes DP can be insulting and I learned that as a Child. However, in used in a practical way in the correct context I believe it's proper. My father gave the man a job in his foundry and never saw a harder worker. Their Daughter is my age and while I lived in and around the world during my adult life, and after my Father died in 1976, the Daughter remained a faithful helper to my Mother until her death in 2010. I guess she was the Sister I never had. I have my Family Tree up to 1911 off the boat, then I picked it up in Poland. Hope to go there one day and fill in the rest of the blanks.

blade819
 
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