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Opinions on release trigger without a flinch?

8K views 60 replies 36 participants last post by  trapshootin hippie  
#1 ·
Hey everyone, I was just curious as to what your opinions would be for a shooter who doesn't have a flinch but is interested in a release trigger.

My grandfather had a horrible flinch and I heard stories about him running all the way to the trap house trying to pull the trigger! Fortunately, I don't have that problem I've never had an issue with flinching but I am very interested in a release. When thinking about it, it seems like it would be easier to put shots on target if you don't have to worry with your trigger squeeze technique, like just releasing the trigger would make it easier to be accurate. Anyway, just a thought I wanted to see what you guys thought.
 
#8 ·
No, it's an actual issue. If he was up there with a normal trigger he could not pull it. He would lean into it and everything, just could not get the trigger down. With the release he would run an average over 96 but with a normal he couldn't even fire the gun.

Flinches are caused by a brain deficiency. Nothing to do with the trigger. People get a release and still flinch, so what can cause it beside the brain? Drain bamage is easy to spot in a trapshooter. Just watch em run half way to the trap house trying to catch the target, not realizing they are supposed to shoot it. And they try to blame it on the trigger? Just yank the trigger, slap it back or whateves is your favorite way, except for pressing it ever so gently till it breaks, this ain't precision rifle shooting.
That's almost funny, thing being though it's an actual problem that he had and I've seen many shooters with the issue, it's why the release trigger exists. Whatever the cause of the problem he couldn't shoot without a release. Didn't matter how hard he tried he could not pull the trigger to fire the gun. That's why he would "run" toward the house, he was leaning into it trying to pull the trigger but just couldn't and that made him off balance and vioala he's trying to catch his balance.
 
#18 ·
Hi,

I good friend of mine went to a release several years ago for the same reason. At first it was fun watching him shoot the back of the trap house, but after a while it became annoying.

Don't do it.

Chet h
That isn't the triggers fault, that is someone that can't properly handle a firearm.
 
#6 ·
Flinches are caused by a brain deficiency. Nothing to do with the trigger. People get a release and still flinch, so what can cause it beside the brain? Drain bamage is easy to spot in a trapshooter. Just watch em run half way to the trap house trying to catch the target, not realizing they are supposed to shoot it. And they try to blame it on the trigger? Just yank the trigger, slap it back or whateves is your favorite way, except for pressing it ever so gently till it breaks, this ain't precision rifle shooting.
 
#12 ·
Both pull and release work well, if there's no other problems monkeying with either process. If either the pull or release is not working properly you won't like it much.

I went to a release after trying one for a few rounds and took to it like a duck to water. I still shoot good quality pull triggers also without it affecting my score!

Try a few rounds with a release and make your own decisions.

HAP
 
#13 ·
I have posted this before but it is pertinent to your question. I have taught new shooters using a release trigger gun. They have universally done well and without any real adaption time. When I got my release, I was amazed at how much easier it was to shoot than a pull. YMMV

I got the following note some time ago from a friend that he received from one of his friends. I did a couple of minor edits to protect their identities but the rest is presented as written. It's got nothing to do with flinching but it sure makes a strong case about release triggers.

"Hey XXXXXXX,

As you know, I took up Trapshooting a little more than 4 years ago using an old model 12 trap gun that was loaned to me by a friend. However, after I had demonstrated a commitment to the game, my father in law sent me an over/under. By chance, it had both release and pull dropout triggers. While I knew nothing about release triggers and had never flinched, I thought why not give it a try. One of the guys at the club where I shoot showed me how to use it. Bingo. Within a couple of rounds I was shooting better than I had ever shot before. I soon gave ATA a try. I liked it and within XX months I was shooting AA/27.

I have watched the arguments about release triggers on TS.com for quite a while. I never felt qualified to jump in and participate because most of these arguments referred to flinching rather than just whether a release trigger is a better method of firing a trap gun. Because I had never had a problem with flinching, I do not understand anything about that problem. However, here is where it gets interesting. I have a very unique job. I am a team coordinator/referee/slave driver/mother hen for a team of exceptionally educated, experienced professionals representing a variety of engineering, medical, psychological and research disciplines. Our business is rocket science and brain surgery so to speak.

We are all employed by a major aerospace firm and while some of what we do is highly classified, most of it is of a standard commercial nature. What we do is provide independent testing for human interface control systems to determine if those controls are designed in such a manner as to eliminate as much probability of human error as possible. Simply put, this might just be whether it is better for a two way toggle switch to have up as off and down as on or vice versa. However, think of the control array in a 737 cockpit, the space shuttle or a nuclear power plant and that is what people pay us a lot of money to test. We usually have about 10 people on a team and we bill at $8000-$10,000 per hour.

About once a quarter we try to get the team out of the labs and into a more natural setting. I decided that a day at my trap club might be a lot of fun. I recruited a friend to help me with getting the guys to the line and shooting, and hopefully, hitting some targets. We had four trap guns, three with pull triggers and mine with the release. I was surprised at how easily some of the guys took to shooting the release. Afterwards, as we were sitting around enjoying chili dogs, the guys who used the release trigger started asking questions as to why my gun had a release and the other guns had pulled triggers. I gave the standard overview concerning flinching. However, these guys immediately were interested in whether a release trigger is a better human control interface for firing a trap gun. Much discussion ensued and everyone had a great time bringing their particular discipline to bear, but being research scientists no one would accept a resolution without specific testing.

A couple of weeks later, we had cleared the decks for a large contract concerning a fire control system for a shipboard missile defense system. The package was to arrive on the appointed morning and we had completed constructing our testing protocols. However, as I was conducting what I thought was the final check list meeting, we were notified that their might be a delay in delivery. Somehow the conversation flowed back to the outing at the trap club and then the discussion about release triggers. About that time, we were notified that delivery would be delayed at least 24 hours. So here is all this high-priced talent with nothing to do so someone suggested why not apply our talents to a release trigger review. Needless to say, numerous bets were quickly made. Having previously received security clearance to bring my trap gun into the employee parking lot, I happened to have my gun in my trunk. A quick call to security and I and my trap gun were being escorted into the lab.

Soon, we had several volunteers with wires attached from their trigger fingers, up their arms, on their spinal column and all over their heads. Others were studying the mechanical forces required and exerted by the two different triggers. Data was collected in the number crunching began. After a bit over five hours of research we had our answer.

Our typical project results in a document that runs from 20 pages for something very simple to several hundred pages for multiple function control arrays. However, while these reports are very helpful for the design and manufacturing teams, we have devised a simple ratio to present so that non-technical management people can quickly appreciate the value propositions of one system versus another. To do this we assign the least desirable functionality a value of one. We then assign the better functionality a value of plus one. By example, if we have found that the up is the worst position for "on" for the toggle switch then we might say that having "off" is a 1.14 better choice. We call this the better alternative ratio.

Because most of the products/systems that we test our very well designed with a lot of previous knowledge applied, our alternative ratio is usually fairly low. In fact, previously the highest alternative ratio that we have estimated for a manual control was a 2.67. Now, drumroll, the release trigger came back with a better alternative ratio compared to the pull trigger of 3.27 based upon a projected 100 repetitions in a 45 minute time frame. Quite frankly I was shocked at how big the difference was. Even though I had seen my shooting improve after getting the gun with the release trigger, there were lots of other variables that I am sure contributed to that progress

In summary, we produced a result that someone would have had to pay us about $45,000 to achieve. While I can't add anything to the discussion about flinching, I think I can categorically state that a release trigger provides a substantial biomechanical superiority to a pull trigger for shooting a trap gun.

Of course, we all know that many of the best trapshooters successfully use pull triggers and achieve 99% plus results. We also know that the majority of release trigger users will never achieve 99% plus results. However, if I were going to train 100 qualified candidates that can fly fighter jets to shoot trap, every one of them would have a gun with a release trigger."
 
#15 ·
Thank you for posting that. That was sort of my line of thinking, that the motion of releasing to fire is better than that of pulling. I haven't had the chance to use a release as my grandfather wouldn't let me shoot his, he said that since I didn't use one I didn't need to "get used to it" on his gun and that since I didn't flinch I didn't need one. Whenever he'd let me shoot his gun he'd pull the release out beforehand.
 
#20 ·
The fact that shooters who "slap" the trigger develop a flinch just like shooters who like to squeeze the triggers is a good indication that flinching is unrelated to how good the pull trigger is. Flinching is caused by the reluctance to pull the trigger either by fear of recoil or fear of missing.
A release triggers only requires enough commitment to stop preventing the gun from firing.
 
#27 ·
I will occasionally "jerk' the gun, most likely caused by a vision thing. I typically do not have trouble pulling the trigger. I was told by a couple of HOF shooters - "unless you can not pull the trigger, do not go to a release. If you can't consistently pull the trigger, then go to a release". I played around with a double-release and found them easy for me to handle and learn --- but, not having problems pulling the trigger - I have stuck to the advice given me.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Daro Handy shoots a release trigger in his Remington 1100's.

One of my best friends shoots a release for trap in his K80 trap special un-single combo, because of flinching. He uses pull triggers in his hunting guns. He has told me when we were hunting there were a few times he just couldn't pull the trigger. He thinks his flinches are caused because the brain has calculated that the images sent from his eyes (sight picture) will result in a miss. When this happens, the brain sends a no-go signal to the muscles controlling the trigger finger. If his theory is true, I don't understand how a release trigger can fix this problem. I also don't understand how a release trigger can help a shooter who is under more pressure than they are used to.

My friend is not recoil sensitive, has a strong dominate right eye and shoots right handed. He does not do the loop thing that Phil Kiner talks about in his video which occurs when the off eye is trying to take over. He is also a very good bench rest shooter who has won many shoots and places very high in the nationals. He does not have any problem pulling an extremely light pull trigger on his custom built bench rest rifles with March scopes. This seems to support his theory that if the brain calculates that the sight picture is correct, it will send a go signal to the muscles controlling the trigger finger.