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Hello:
I was cleaning out my desk in my gun room the other night and found remnants of a written proposal Dick Bennett once sent the ATA in order to possibly revamp handicap shooting. Dick was the owner of the Big Muskego gun club in Muskego Wisconsin as well as making the state trapshooting teams in Wisconsin and Indiana.

I recall at the time that Dick did not receive any response to his written proposal. Thought you might be interested in what his proposal actually was.

Dick's proposal was to have all shooters shoot handicap from the 25 yard line. He felt this would simplify and cut down on problems squading due to different handicap yardages.

He then suggested that handicap shooting be classified like 16 yard singles shooting where your handicap averages would be classed from class AA down to class D.

Dick has passed away and to my knowledge nothing ever came of his proposal. Any merit to his handicap proposal?

Let me know what you think? I for one like the current handicap the way it is.
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
 

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Speaking as one who does not consider myself a competitive shooter... I only register 16 and handicap a handful of times each year... it seems that yardage has a polarizing effect... those at top are somewhat unaffected, until the skilkset fails, with those at the bottom mired in short yardage with a skillset not improving and a small segment in the middle digging and progressing...

Lewis is our bowling handicap... but we ran events in the past where everyone shot from the same yardage and got birds based upon the average shot...

Lower average folks could not outright win, shooting their average with the extra targets allowed, but... if you shot really well, to the point where you broke through a plateau, one could could win an event...

My $0.02,
 

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I shoot in an Inter Club series, in which all shooters shoot one round of singles, and one round of handicap. Every shooter shoots handicap
from the 22 yd. line. This system works well, because you don't have to look for a squad that shoots your yardage, you can shoot on any one.
A-lot of our shooters are farmers and can't spare a whole day to wait for their yardage.
 

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The gut says it won't happen, but how about eliminating 18-19 yard shooting and start off kids, women and what have you at 20 yards. If nothing else but to clean up squadding at that end of the pads.

With modern ammunition (and specialized trap guns) no longer needed and no way is 18-19 yard handicap shooting in the present day.
 

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Dick has passed away and to my knowledge nothing ever came of his proposal. Any merit to his handicap proposal?
I don't see it curing what currently ails the ATA. So many would be way over handicapped. How much fun would it be for a 19 or 20 yarder trying to compete from the 25.
Even if you class them in "D" what would they break 60%, 70% or 80%?

With modern ammunition (and specialized trap guns) no longer needed and no way is 18-19 yard handicap shooting in the present day.
There are plenty of shooters that can't maintain a 90 average from 16 yards. I don't know how they would ever be competitive at any handicap yardage.
 

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I've been on the 18 yard since coming back after not firing a shot in the 2011 season. I have come close to getting a punch several times but
didn't quite make. I will not request to be moved back because they call it earned yardage and I want to earn my way back.
That being said if going back to where 20 yards was the shortest for men was put to a vote I would vote for it.
Bud
 

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Hello:
I was cleaning out my desk in my gun room the other night and found remnants of a written proposal Dick Bennett once sent the ATA in order to possibly revamp handicap shooting. Dick was the owner of the Big Muskego gun club in Muskego Wisconsin as well as making the state trapshooting teams in Wisconsin and Indiana.

I recall at the time that Dick did not receive any response to his written proposal. Thought you might be interested in what his proposal actually was.

Dick's proposal was to have all shooters shoot handicap from the 25 yard line. He felt this would simplify and cut down on problems squading due to different handicap yardages.

He then suggested that handicap shooting be classified like 16 yard singles shooting where your handicap averages would be classed from class AA down to class D.

Dick has passed away and to my knowledge nothing ever came of his proposal. Any merit to his handicap proposal?

Let me know what you think? I for one like the current handicap the way it is.
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
Whether it came from Dick or someone else, we discussed such a proposed change different years during the delegates meetings at the Grand. It seemed that such a change drew opposition and very little favoritism.

One major issue is there are many that can't maintain a respectable average from 18-20yds. now. It was felt that such a requirement would stop such folks from shooting the handicap event and possibly quit all together. From the delegates that took the proposed change back to the people of their respective state, little favoritism was found there either.
 

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Most all ATA non competitive shooters, those shooting a lot less targets per year for fun, are already handicapped beyond a winning handicap score at the 16 yard line! Mandating all shoot handicap from 20 yards or even further back will discourage a lot of them even further.

Once upon a time it was mandated that new shooters begin ATA handicap shooting at the 22 yard line. That went over like the proverbial lead balloon also.

HAP
 

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And now they can't decide where you should shoot. Small shoots at the 20. But at a state or zone shoot the 22 unless you are a lot younger than me, then it's at the 24. Thankfully I have my target minimums in now.
 

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I don't see a problem with 25yd singles, and it would certainly make squading a lot simpler. Now that we have excellent logging/scoring programs, shootoff's would become a lot simpler, and shoot management should love it, although the sandbaggers would have to find a new way to cheat.
 

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Our handicap system would work better if we could eliminate sandbagging. "know ability" is ignored unless some one files a complaint. A 2000 bird review would cost baggers more money to get a reduction.

Some short yardage shooters put up a big score at a big shoot, and then shoot just enough birds to get a reduction,and then shoot the same short yardage the next year. I've got to think a computer program could be manipulated to highlight these guys.
 

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BB, have you not heard of a "D" class shooter breaking those class AA scores once in a while? It would be the same with a 25 yard handicap class system when it comes to harvesting sand.

HAP
Yeah, but they'd have to do it again from 25 in the shootoff instead of the 18.
 

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Yeah, but they'd have to do it again from 25 in the shootoff instead of the 18.
BB, that's true yet this; a cheater who may be shooting in a much lower class than his true ability is shooting off against a true lower classed shooter? Not a fair way at all in my opinion. It could be the exact same way perennial class manipulators shoot and win in lower classes today at the major shoots.

The only way of preventing class opportunists of working the system is to keep track of previous wins/ties in major events. Such should be classed according to previous wins/ties to prevent this. As is, shoot winter time targets to lower themselves back to where it all began? Classing such previous winners and ties accordingly would help prevent this hop-scotch practice in all the games we play?

HAP
 

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Not sure what problem this would solve. As stated above, this wouldn't be "handicapped shooting." It would simply be 25-yard singles.
 
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What is the issue with 25 yard singles? Or 27 yard singles?
Seems many posts indicate singles are a curse or bad word in the game.
With the use of computers it seems the issue faced in the past with squading and so forth are a thing of the past anyway. Granted some squads might not be full but I am not aware that is a real problem..... Larry
 
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