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Discussion Starter #1
Gentlemen:

The linked news article begins like this...

"Documents from an Ohio National Guard (ONG) training drill conducted last January reveal the details of a mock disaster where Second Amendment supporters with 'anti-government' opinions were portrayed as domestic terrorists."

The article goes on to explain the exercise was based on FICTIONAL employees of the Portsmouth, OH school district committing unspeakable acts of domestic terrorism against district students.

I have to wonder what those in charge were thinking or IF they were thinking. Consider this.

According to the Portsmouth School District website, certified employees (i.e. teachers) are represented by the Portsmouth City Teachers Association. The PCTA is an affiliate of the National Education Association. Non-certified employees (custodians, cafeteria workers, maintenance staff, etc.) are represented by AFSCME.

NEA affiliates and AFSCME locals represent government workers. Both enthusiastically supported obummer in 2008 and 2012. They support pretty much every lib/dem/socialist that favors dumping limitless tax money in the public trough from which these folks feed.

ONG leaders of the exercise and Portsmouth police chief, Bill Raisin, both consider the training scenario reasonable "in the world we live in". I have to wonder whether the ONG and Chief Raisin consider the NEA, AFSCME, or both likely incubators of domestic terrorists? They damn sure don't welcome Tea Party types.

I suspect the goal of the exercise had more to do with smearing advocates of limited government and 2nd Amendment supporters (aka political adversaries) than anything else. Don't you?

sissy
 

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Is this the same National Guard what shot up some university students?
 

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"Is this the same National Guard what shot up some university students?""

BUUT BUUT you have forgotten the National Guard were being verbally abused!!
And those self same students had the gall to throw tear gas back at the National Guard! Of course you might ask were the tear gas came from in the first place!
They had to shoot LIVE ammo, to stop the abuse...Neidemier from animal house comes to mind!
 

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Most of those are training ops. They do not become a doctrine of sorts as some training officer dreams these show and tell games up. The prison riot scenario is a common training op as is, what ever is a recent incident. Fire Dept train also and it's just training. Not preparations to disarm society.

This training is usually brief and does not resort to abusing the folks. Who are usually volunteers. Soldiers back in the US are required to have remedial riot control training every year. Most of it is planned from the lower level training NCO's.

The NG's main mission is to serve the governor. The Army took advantage of the situation and flooded Iraq and Afghanistan with National Guard and Reservists. Some that have accumulated up to 10 tours.

That mess at Kent State was brought on by outside influence. I have met some soldiers that were involved and their side of the story was buried. Those that fired were not proud of the outcome. Folks throw shit at them and they had no intention of hurting anyone. It would have been devastating for a military unit to do so. Now if you want to throw a real hissy fit, condemn the Army that fired on WWI vets on the MALL in Washington DC

Our national heroes Douglas MacArthur, and "our blood, his guts",,, Patton did the shooting.
 

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The irony is that in nearly all mass shootings the perps have been liberals or children of liberals. Go figure.
 

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This shoe will FIT for most here............

If your trying to remove the government BEFORE it is your turn or TIME to vote you ARE a Domestic Terrorist!!!!!!!!!!!!

GS
 

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I swear to God Midalake, you have to live under a bridge. And the word is you're, not your. Probably your Liberal/Progressive education let you down.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
221:

I'm not sure it matters but this thread is more than five months old. What does matter is that everthing you wrote relating to the original post is either irrelevant, off topic or incorrect. An item by item explanation isn't worth the effort but I'll provide one example to illustrate the point.

You wrote, "They (training scenarios) do not become a doctrine..."

However, as I wrote in the OP, "ONG leaders of the exercise and Portsmouth police chief, Bill Raisin, both consider the training scenario reasonable 'in the world we live in'".

Whether the exercise leaders were at the top or bottom of the ONG food chain, they had already concluded a scenerio involving 2nd amendment supporters attacking school children was reasonable. It was already their mind set/doctrine.

sissy

PS: As for our resident nitwit, moveon.org is looking to hire like minded nitwits...

MoveOn Job Application Form
Thank you for applying to work at MoveOn! We are honored that so many great people want to join our team. Your application will be reviewed quickly by our staff, and we’ll follow up directly if we’re interested in your candidacy. No follow up calls or emails, please. Two quick notes:

You’ll need to provide links for your resume and cover letter. If you don’t already have your resume online, we suggest uploading it as a Google Doc. Make sure you set the share settings to Public.

Different jobs require different cover letters. Please check the “To Apply” section of job you’re interested in, and write your cover letter according to the directions there. (You can find the job descriptions here.)

We look forward to reading your application.

-The MoveOn Team
 

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sissy,
I suspect the goal of the exercise had more to do with smearing advocates of limited government and 2nd Amendment supporters (aka political adversaries) than anything else. Don't you?
sissy
NO there is no conspiracy. You suspect wrong.

You have a short memory. It was your point by point drivel that was a display of how little you know about these matters.

Everything you wrote was hear say.

No one wants to train for the slim chance that society could go upside down, but it has to be considered, as protocol needs to be in place before it does. It's nothing more than the Boy Scouts motto,,,,,,Be Prepared. It is also something that could be used while deployed in a conflict zone. You need to stop jumping to conclusions.

You'd be the first one to point your fingers if some crazy event were to happen and the folks involved in protecting your ass were not trained for it.

The reason it got brought back up, is this new forum has similar threads at the bottom and I need to pay more attention to the dates.

Just what's your move on.org drivel have to do with anything? You have a knee jerk and then you call someone a nitwit. You need to grow up.

It's one of those deals where you just figured they said what you thought they said. I agree it was a piss poor description, but if it had been worded different you still would not have understood. Your proof was also a news report. Who's the NitWit???????

The Domestic Terrorism of public schools is very real, you were just looking to stir up crap. Your OP says that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
221:

Ok, we'll go point by point. I'll start with your first post (Tuesday at 6:32am) your words are black. Mine are red.

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Most of those are training ops. They do not become a doctrine of sorts as some training officer dreams these show and tell games up. The prison riot scenario is a common training op as is, what ever is a recent incident. Fire Dept train also and it's just training. All this is generally true but off topic. Not preparations to disarm society. I didn't even imply the ONG exercise was about disarming society. This training is usually brief and does not resort to abusing the folks. Who are usually volunteers. Soldiers back in the US are required to have remedial riot control training every year. Also true but still unrelated to the original topic. Most of it is planned from the lower level training NCO's.

The NG's main mission is to serve the governor. The Army NG website lists the following as its mission statement....

"During peacetime each state National Guard answers to leadership in the 50 states, three territories and the District of Columbia. During national emergencies, however, the President reserves the right to mobilize the National Guard, putting them in federal duty status.

While federalized, the units answer to the Combatant Commander of the theatre in which they are operating and, ultimately, to the President.

Even when not federalized, the Army National Guard has a federal obligation (or mission.) That mission is to maintain properly trained and equipped units, available for prompt mobilization for war, national emergency, or as otherwise needed.

The Army National Guard is a partner with the Active Army and the Army Reserves in fulfilling the country's military needs."

I missed the part where it says, "the NG's main mission is to serve the governor" but you can interpret their mission statement any way you wish.

The Army took advantage of the situation and flooded Iraq and Afghanistan with National Guard and Reservists. Some that have accumulated up to 10 tours. Your statement may be true but why blame the Army? Guard units ultimately answer to the president. He alone determines if and when Guard units are federalized. .

That mess at Kent State was brought on by outside influence. I have met some soldiers that were involved and their side of the story was buried. Those that fired were not proud of the outcome. Folks throw shit at them and they had no intention of hurting anyone. It would have been devastating for a military unit to do so. Now if you want to throw a real hissy fit, condemn the Army that fired on WWI vets on the MALL in Washington DC

Our national heroes Douglas MacArthur, and "our blood, his guts",,, Patton did the shooting.

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Your second post (Wednesday, 5:07am) begins....


NO there is no conspiracy. You suspect wrong.

Where did I say there was a conspiracy? Their statements were public.

You have a short memory. It was your point by point drivel that was a display of how little you know about these matters. Everything you wrote was hear say.

Nothing I wrote was 'hear say". Some was clearly stated as my opinion. The rest were details and quotes from public servants and public sources. Those sources were either linked or named so any interested reader could access and evaluate them independently. If you question the veracity of the sources or quotes, feel free to identify and document the errors. Hint: an obvious place to start would be any complaints lodged - or clarifications offered - by the Portsmoouth police chief or Guard spokesman. Good luck finding any.

No one wants to train for the slim chance that society could go upside down, but it has to be considered, as protocol needs to be in place before it does. It's nothing more than the Boy Scouts motto,,,,,,Be Prepared. It is also something that could be used while deployed in a conflict zone. You need to stop jumping to conclusions.

Where did I say military preparedness (or any first responder preparedness) was inappropriate?

You'd be the first one to point your fingers if some crazy event were to happen and the folks involved in protecting your ass were not trained for it.

I absolutely would. Certain individuals and organizations are paid to protect the publics' collective ass. It is their job. Where did I say otherwise?

I suppose its redundant but those folks include military, law enforcement and public safety agencies at the federal, state, and local levels.

The reason it got brought back up, is this new forum has similar threads at the bottom and I need to pay more attention to the dates.

Just what's your move on.org drivel have to do with anything? I'll explain in PM if you're really interested. You have a knee jerk and then you call someone a nitwit. You need to grow up.

It's one of those deals where you just figured they said what you thought they said. Actually, its one of those deals where they "said" what is in quotations. I agree it was a piss poor description, but if it had been worded different you still would not have understood. Your proof was also a news report. My proof were the chief's statements and wording from the original ONG source document. Both were identified and quoted in a number of different news articles. Some of those articles - maybe all of them - are still available with a simple Google search. Who's the NitWit???????

The Domestic Terrorism of public schools is very real, In 2009 a Homeland Security report warned about “right wing extremists” and the threat that they may pose to the government. That report lumped pro second amendment, anti-abortion, anti-illegal immigration, military veterans returning from overseas, and advocates for smaller government with white supremacists and domestic terrorists. When called on it, Sec. Napolitano defended the report and its contents. I find it it interesting, insulting and ultimately disturbing that the "domestic terrorists" named by the ONG exercise were identified as 2nd amendment supporters.

But I digress... Perhaps you'd be kind enough to provide two or three examples where pro second amendment, anti-abortion, anti-illegal immigration, returning military veterans or advocates of smaller government have committed acts of domestic terrorism against schools or students. Documented threats by any of those groups will suffice.


you were just looking to stir up crap. Your OP says that. Really? Where exactly does my OP say that?
 

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You wasted your time as I know what I said and I'm not going to debate you. You and Kipling make that impossible.

The Guard in peacetime is under the Governors direction and your right they have to be maintained at a level of readiness The Adjutant General in Ohio is a major general. It's her responsibility to keep them in shape.

I don't need your tin hat or to run around making wild claims. You are trying to make a big deal over something you thought you read. I could care less as what your proposing is nonsense. They have been doing these exercises for many years and have yet to confiscate, anyone's guns.

You should more concerned with all the Mercenaries that are on the Fed's payroll.

I suspect the goal of the exercise had more to do with smearing advocates of limited government and 2nd Amendment supporters (aka political adversaries) than anything else. Don't you?
sissy
This you said.

On topic, off topic, that s on you for making statements that you did.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
221:

I've always liked this forum and with a handful of exceptions, I trust the judgment of its members.

Those members are always free to read what they choose and to ignore the rest.

Members can start new threads and add to existing threads. Except as limited by the owners, members are free to post pretty much anything. However, members are always responsible for the content of their posts.

Of course, anything posted is subject to challenge as you have done.

As for debate – it is a good thing. Debate provides an opportunity to clarify issues and address them. An especially positive benefit is the opportunity debate provides to air different or competing perspectives. Part and parcel of the debate process is individuals making their best persuasive case about why their perspective has greater validity than someone else’s. Ultimately, forum readers decide what’s persuasive and what’s crap.


Participating in a debate (or not) is always the prerogative of individuals. However, those who engage in debate do so at their own peril. In the absence of a cogent and defensible position, someone might just hand them their [COLOR=#000000]@ss[/COLOR] - rhetorically speaking.

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Now back to your most recent post. You're comments are in black. Mine are in red.

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You wasted your time... it is my time ...as I know what I said… More importantly, forum readers know what you said. They also know what I said and what others said. …and I'm not going to debate you. You and Kipling make that impossible. To debate or not is your choice but blaming others for your shortcomings is unseemly.

The Guard in peacetime is under the Governors direction… That is covered by the first sentence of the Guard’s mission statement. I posted it above in purple. Why are you repeating it? … and your right they have to be maintained at a level of readiness The Adjutant General in Ohio is a major general. It's her responsibility to keep them in shape. All true.

I don't need your tin hat... Get your own tin foil hat. I'm keeping mine. ...or to run around making wild claims. For purposes of clarity please cut and paste EXACTLY which claims are “wild”. You are trying to make a big deal over something you thought you read. I commented on what I actually read. The articles are as close as a Google search so YOU can read them too, or not. That's your choice. I could care less as what your (you’re) proposing is nonsense. Your opinion is noted but forum members decide for themselves what is and isn’t nonsense. They have been doing these exercises for many years and have yet to confiscate, anyone's guns. This is the second time you’ve raised the confiscation red herring. Government confiscation of privately owned firearms is a perfectly legitimate subject but has nothing to do with what I posted on this thread.

You should more concerned with all the Mercenaries that are on the Fed's payroll. Any mercenaries on the federal payroll were hired by federal officials and answer to those officials. The officials in turn report up the chain of command. If you are concerned by “our side’s” mercenaries, maybe you should take it up with the commander in chief. You should also consider starting a thread to tell forum members why you're concerned and why they SHOULD be.

I suspect the goal of the exercise had more to do with smearing advocates of limited government and 2nd Amendment supporters (aka political adversaries) than anything else. Don't you?
sissy


This you said. Yes I did. I’m responsible for each and every word.

In retrospect a more accurate statement would have been, "I suspect the premise of the exercise had more to do with smearing advocates of limited government and 2nd Amendment supporters (aka political adversaries) than anything else. Don't you?"

However, I didn’t say “premise” and you took my statement at face value. Maybe other readers did too. OTOH, maybe they understood from the context I was objecting to the premise. Regardless, other readers didn’t take me to task on the wording back in February. They are certainly free to join you in doing so now.

On topic, off topic, that s on you for making statements that you did. Maybe, but forum readers are the final judge. I’m good with that. Are you?
 

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Debate is contention in argument; dispute, controversy; discussion; especially the discussion of questions of public interest in Parliament or in any assembly.[1]
Debate is a method of interactive and representational argument. Debate is a broader form of argument than deductive reasoning, which only examines whether a conclusion is a consequence of premises, and factual argument, which only examines what is or isn't the case, or rhetoric, which is a technique of persuasion. Though logical consistency, factual accuracy and some degree of emotional appeal to the audience are important elements of the art of persuasion, in debating, one side often prevails over the other side by presenting a superior "context" and/or framework of the issue, which is far more subtle and strategic.

FYI 221, What I do leans more toward deductive and inductive reasoning. All too often, debating disintegrates into emotionally poisoned opinion and nonsensical anchoring. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is entitled to their own set of facts. What passes as modern debating has killed common sense. Show me the facts, or I'll let the facts take me to the only reasonable conclusion, it's all I care about. I'm happy to concede any sustainable fact, and review it for relevance, and adopt it if appropriate. Only people that fear the truth found in fact need be concerned about conversing with me. You might even find we have some common ground. I enjoy a good exchange of ideas and facts, hypotheticals included, as long as they don't subvert the truth. [Truth is most often used to mean being in accord with fact or reality,[1] ]

I hope you have a better day,
Kip
 

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221 why don't you crawl back under the rock you have been under for the last few years
 
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