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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Seems like I struggle a bit seeing the bird well on left angles. I just doesn't seem like my eyes lock on very well.
Rights and straights I see very well. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks
Trail
 

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Seems like I struggle a bit seeing the bird well on left angles. I just doesn't seem like my eyes lock on very well.
Rights and straights I see very well. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks
Trail
Hold farther left. Try holding about where a left angle would be at your particular hold height and the post you’re shooting from.
 
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And also slow down. If you think the targets are flying fast away from you, you will try and shoot them faster. But that is just an illusion. They are not escaping you, and it really is not flying that fast. If you don't move until you see the target clearly, you can move directly to it. If you start moving while it is a streak, you won't see it well before you fire at it.
 

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I like Leo III's hold point for 1. About ½ way between left corner and center of the house for 2 eyed shooter, look point is too the left , a hoolahoop just inside the left corner. Don't move until you lock eyes onto target. Eyes to Target, then gun to Target.
 

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I had the same problem, I shoot with both eyes open and my gun hold on #1 was just like Leos. But I started to hold on the left hand corner with a lower height like Harlem does. This gave me a better picture of the target with my right eye. Holding in on the house my left eye was picking the target up and cross firing, making a bad move to the target.
 

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I'm right eye dominant and shoot two eyed, but have a vision problem with my right eye. For some reason, I have more trouble with left angle targets, which I think is vision related.

Anyhow, I lock the trap machine to left angle throws and shoot 50 or more until I start hitting consistently. On certain days, it's really tough.
 

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Perazzi MX2000 31.5/34 combo with a prosoft
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I had the same problem, I shoot with both eyes open and my gun hold on #1 was just like Leos. But I started to hold on the left hand corner with a lower height like Harlem does. This gave me a better picture of the target with my right eye. Holding in on the house my left eye was picking the target up and cross firing, making a bad move to the target.
I had this exact problem and holding a lower gun helped keep me from cross firing. If you’re two eyed and right eye dominant and lefts suddenly give you fits, cross dominance is likely the issue assuming no other mechanical issue. Can try a blade or cross blinding sight or scotch tape on the glasses to help see if that’s the case. Then you can play with your holds to see if you really need those other devices. A hold adjustment fixed mine.
 

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Another issue may be that you are rolling your head forward as you mount the gun, due to crawling the stock or if you have a high stock and, because you have a preconceived idea of how you want to see the beads (lined up or figure 8), you are rolling your head forward to flatten the beads. If you are a right handed shooter another issue is that, because your eyes are not on the edge of your head, you have to turn your head to the right, into the stock to get behind the mid line of the gun/rib. This is not an issue as you progress to posts 2-5 because, as you encounter more right birds, they are easier to focus on because your head is facing more to the right anyway. Mount your gun and look into a mirror and see where your eyes are in their socket when you are looking down the rib. If they are in the very top left hand corner of the socket it creates a situation where you have very limited eye movement up and to the left. You may see the flash of the target leaving the trap, but due to the fact that the eye is already at the limit of its range of movement, it is difficult to lock on/see and follow. The question that you have to as yourself is-do I have a problem locking on/seeing targets going to the left on post 1 as I watch the targets thrown for my squad mates when I am not looking down the rib of my shotgun? If the answer is no, then it is likely that when you are using your eyes, as they were intended to be in normal circumstances by looking through the centre of the socket, your problem is not a vision issue, it is a gun mount issue.

If it is a gun mount issue you have to come up with a way to mount the gun so that, when you are looking over your gun, your eyes are more in the centre of their socket. If there is a common denominator among the 50, or so, shooters who are shooting off for the Clay Target Championship at the Grand, it is that they are standing straight, not hunched over, with a heads up shooting style. This does not mean that you have to run out and buy a gun with a high rib. It may mean that you have to mount the gun higher on your shoulder either by installing an adjustable recoil pad or simply having some of the pad above your shoulder when the gun is mounted. Another issue, if you are crawling the stock, is that when you shoot with a more heads up position you should/may have to shorten your stock slightly.

Another solution may be, as you roll your head forward on the gun mount, you start with your chin in a more forward position. If your mount starts with your chin closer to your chest you end up with a lower head position. With your chin forward (it seems to me) that you can't rotate forward as far and your head/eyes end in a more normal position.
 

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I like Leo III's hold point for 1. About ½ way between left corner and center of the house for 2 eyed shooter, look point is too the left , a hoolahoop just inside the left corner. Don't move until you lock eyes onto target. Eyes to Target, then gun to Target.
That’s where I hold at also. I see and track the bird better from there than I do holding on the corner of the house.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
First...Thank you all for the help! However, I need to amplify a bit.
*I'm a right hand shooter
*This isn't a post 1 issue. Oddly, it seems worse on 2 and 3 (left angles).
*I don't think this is cross fire. I'm really not missing that many...however on many (not all) lefts the target is never sharp.
*My gun hold is 1 foot over the house, slightly to the right, eyes a bit above 90 degrees, slightly left of the gun. (station 1 is exactly like Leo's method, above)
*Oh, ya...I'm 62 and my eyes suck (pretty heavy prescription). Then, again, they've sucked since I was in grade school. :)

Hope that helps. This isn't killing my scores...I'm not unhappy with where I am this early in the spring (22-24's mostly), but with league and ATA cancelled, this seems like a good time to work on problems.

Thanks again. Stay Healthy!
 

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Another issue may be that you are rolling your head forward as you mount the gun, due to crawling the stock or if you have a high stock and, because you have a preconceived idea of how you want to see the beads (lined up or figure 8), you are rolling your head forward to flatten the beads. If you are a right handed shooter another issue is that, because your eyes are not on the edge of your head, you have to turn your head to the right, into the stock to get behind the mid line of the gun/rib. This is not an issue as you progress to posts 2-5 because, as you encounter more right birds, they are easier to focus on because your head is facing more to the right anyway. Mount your gun and look into a mirror and see where your eyes are in their socket when you are looking down the rib. If they are in the very top left hand corner of the socket it creates a situation where you have very limited eye movement up and to the left. You may see the flash of the target leaving the trap, but due to the fact that the eye is already at the limit of its range of movement, it is difficult to lock on/see and follow. The question that you have to as yourself is-do I have a problem locking on/seeing targets going to the left on post 1 as I watch the targets thrown for my squad mates when I am not looking down the rib of my shotgun? If the answer is no, then it is likely that when you are using your eyes, as they were intended to be in normal circumstances by looking through the centre of the socket, your problem is not a vision issue, it is a gun mount issue.

If it is a gun mount issue you have to come up with a way to mount the gun so that, when you are looking over your gun, your eyes are more in the centre of their socket. If there is a common denominator among the 50, or so, shooters who are shooting off for the Clay Target Championship at the Grand, it is that they are standing straight, not hunched over, with a heads up shooting style. This does not mean that you have to run out and buy a gun with a high rib. It may mean that you have to mount the gun higher on your shoulder either by installing an adjustable recoil pad or simply having some of the pad above your shoulder when the gun is mounted. Another issue, if you are crawling the stock, is that when you shoot with a more heads up position you should/may have to shorten your stock slightly.

Another solution may be, as you roll your head forward on the gun mount, you start with your chin in a more forward position. If your mount starts with your chin closer to your chest you end up with a lower head position. With your chin forward (it seems to me) that you can't rotate forward as far and your head/eyes end in a more normal position.
Jo2, Thank you for posting. This describes the problem completely. Jim
 

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Basically, what Jo2 said was the first thing that came to mind. If my head is tilted too far forward, my eyes don't work as fast, same thing if my eyes are not fairly close to perpendicular with the barrels.

The other thing that is tough is where I soft focus. When shooting trap, I find I can pick up and see targets much more clearly on station if I pick a spot out in front of the trap to "calibrate my eyes" then move them up to a soft focus rather than a distant object.

Lastly, the left angles on 2 and 3 give you the most trouble? Is your soft focus above your barrels or to the left of them slightly? An easy way to know where you should have your soft focus is to choose a point, again about 15-20 yards out in front of the centerline of the trap, and center your soft focus to that vicinity. If you do this, on 1-3 your eyes will be more to the left of your barrels and 4-5 your eyes will be more to the right. Station 3 is sort of a push, on which side you hold your eyes, but it isn't directly above your barrels.

Good luck.
 

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In addition to suggested hold points Leo always encouraged a gun mount that would allow for a "heads up" position.
This lets you see thru the center of your eyes, especially important if you wear prescription glasses. When glasses are made, they are best in the center of the lenses and less effective out on the edges. Shooting glasses have larger lenses for this reason.
Phil Kiner is very knowledgeable about vision issues in shooting. Check out his video.
 

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First...that you all for the help! However, I need to amplify a bit.
*I'm a right hand shooter
*This isn't a post 1 issue. Oddly, it seems worse on 2 and 3 (left angles).
*I don't think this is cross fire. I'm really not missing that many...however on many (not all) lefts the target is never sharp.
*My gun hold is 1 foot over the house, slightly to the right, eyes a bit above 90 degrees, slightly left of the gun. (station 1 is exactly like Leo's method, above)
*Oh, ya...I'm 62 and my eyes suck (pretty heavy prescription). Then, again, they've sucked since I was in grade school. :)

Hope that helps. This isn't killing my scores...I'm not unhappy with where I am this early in the spring (22-24's mostly), but with league and ATA cancelled, this seems like a good time to work on problems.

Thanks again. Stay Healthy!
Be sure your RX is up to date, and get some Single Vision only shooting specific glasses with the Optical Center set up higher than normal. I recently did this, and I remembered what targets looked like before I went to progressive lenses! If your Rx is heavy like mine, you might have to hold you head down when walking to the line, the unwanted prism induced by raising the OC makes it feel like I've had a few, and I quit drinking 20 years ago! I only put them on right before going to the line, and take them off right after. I also set the nosepads in so they sit up as high as possible. (I did this before setting the OC. I am an optician, and set it myself, but any decent optician can do this.)
These are my shooting glasses; Stetson semi-rimless aviator (I went old-school), Nikon Transitions Gen8 Amethyst lenses in polycarbonate. They are available in Hi-Index Plastic also if your Rx warrants that.

Shooting glasses.jpg
 

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Good eye! I didn't have any at the time (which I've since rectified-I got a nice set from Shamrock), so I borrowed from FlynLiver, who only had one spare with him. My son also borrowed a pair of orange non-Rx shooting glasses from him. The range at Mpls. gun Club faces north, and we shot at about 11 AM, so the sun was more to the right side.
 
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