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New to reloading....Load recipe questions

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Hello all

New user, new to trap shooting. I'm probably putting the cart before the horse, but I was doing some research in to reloading, and I came up with a couple of questions that I've not been able to find answers to yet. I'll preface this with the fact I may never reload Fiocchi hulls, but I have a flat of them coming new, so it's why I was looking at reload recipes for them out of sheer curiosity. I understand other hulls may be better options. Based on my very limited experience, I was looking for 7/8oz and lower fps recipes. I picked up the Lyman reloading manual, and I realize that some of it's info may be dated - so I checked online on the Alliant site as well:

1. Looking at the Fiocchi recipes, all I am seeing for hulls are "2 3/4 Fiocchi Plastic" - with no specifics around the types such as "Shooting Dynamics" - whereas with Winchester and Federal, all the recipes I've seen have more specifics around the product line the hulls are from. Are the Fiocchis so consistent across their lines that it doesn't matter? [The Lyman manual does indicate that it should be the version with the 7mm was base wad, but the Alliant site does not mention this detail - the Lyman manual also states that a .125 20 gauge card be placed under the shot load]

2. When I look on the Alliant site, they have 24 and 28 listed as shot weights - not 7/8, 1, 1 1/8, etc. I'm not familiar with these shot weights or what they mean - are these in grams as opposed to ounces? Is there a reason they use a different weight nomenclature?

3. Realizing recipes should be strictly followed - especially for new folks....if a recipe has a given power amount, and a slightly higher FPS than someone is looking for, is it safe to reduce the powder weight by a couple of grains if the primer and wad remain the same? (i.e. 20 grains down to 18 or 16)

4. Wads....is there a definitive crosswalk of wad substitutions for the same safety and performance? As I've read through a bunch of forum posts online, wads seem to be one of the more common components where folks can substitute safely - please correct me if I'm wrong here.

thanks much in advance - lots to learn here....
Michael
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Hi. You are were I was a few months ago. Yes, they are giving weights in grams and its because most of the world uses the metric system and they are out of Italy. It is definitely better to use specific recipes but in the current situation, sometimes you just can't. For me, the real issue was getting the right stack height so you get a nice plat crimp. If you have not bought a press yet, definitely get a single stage first like a MEC 600 JR. Most people here and in on SGW will says that loads for straight hulls can be be interchanged. So you can use loads for Federal Gold hulls in other straight wall hulls which includes Fiocchi and Cheddite. It's going to also depend on which powder you have available because some powders are denser and don't give as much stack height. I made a bunch of shells 1 1/8oz in Cheddite hulls with 22grains of Win Super Target (WST) using Fiocchi wads (Grafs has them). They crimped nicely. I also have had success using CB6110 (or CB6100 for 1oz) wads. It is very tall wad that compresses down when you crimp. A lot of peopl are finding success with them in TopGun hulls which have a very thin base so you need more stack height.

I have spent countless hours researching recipes from many sources (lyman book, powder company websites, hull websites, Advantages book, etc) so plan on some degree of learning curve and you have to figure out which components you can get.
 

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Fiocchi is a 3 piece straight walled case. These cases are known as Reifenhauser type case. A metal base head, an inner base wad, usually hard plastic crimped around a plastic hull which is cut to length from a reel of rolled plastic tubing.

I think the difference in loads offered by Fiocchi is length of “brass“ and color of dye used in hulls. I could be wrong. They use a 6 point crimp which some people are not fond of. A wad for straight walled cases like Clay Busters 2100-12 works idea for 7/8 or 1 oz load. Follow the recommendation of the powder manufacturer.
 
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Trap 206, let me be the first to welcome you to TS.com.

To point you to some additional data, look at Hodgdon's online reloading data guide and the data Claybuster has for its 61xx wads. And primer selection for the Fiocchi hulls will be important (if you can find any); stick to the Euro primers like NS, Fio and Rio. And, the Federal data should also work for the Fiocchi hull.
 

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Again, Welcome to TS.com

I found loads for your hull. Go to AlliantPowder.com website. They have all there listed powders with your hull. Red Dot and Promo powder are the only one's they show with a speed of 1,200 fps. They list Green Dot. But their speeds start at 1,300 fps. They only show Fio. primers listed for every load. The Nobel Sport Primers, and primers made by Rio will also work. But Alliant does not list any loads with that powder on there website. You might be able to send a E-Mail to Alliant's website and get a powder tech their to give you the powder drop needed with the components you give them???

Just because Alliant lists a load, does not mean that all the components will fit into the hull properly. You might need a dense powder to load this hull. To keep your components stack height at the proper height. The top of your shot (after you weight both powder and shot to make sure they are right) needs to be just at, or a tad under the bottom most crimp crease on your hull. As mentioned you should need a 6 point crimp starter for these hulls.

So the Bottom Line is your going to spend time and money trying to get these hulls to loaded. American hulls and Euro type hulls need different primers, and wads. Its always best to buy all your components in bulk. 8 lbs. of powder. A case of 5000 primers. 5000 wads in a case. So you see trying to load only 250 hulls with primers and wads that don't match any American made hulls can be a problem when you buy all your components in bulk. Do your homework and ask more questions.

You can check most every load you will ever need at one of these two websites.

Alliantpower.com

Hodgdon.com

Good Luck to you and don't forget to buy a good scale to weigh all your powder and shot drops to get them right!!! break em all Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the info and warm welcome everyone - much appreciated. Obviously there is a lot to learn here, and I’m just getting started. This started off as just an investigatory exercise, and I’m realizing that they may not be the best as a first go for a new reloader. I’m also realizing that with the current shortages, it may be a matter of collecting the components you can find, and then work backwards sourcing a recipe. Hopefully that will change as more components become available, when ever that happens.

thanks for starting my education on all of this

Michael
 

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I’ll second Pull & Mark - don’t rely on the press manufacturers’ bushing charts - especially check your powder drops during your actual loading routine.

And good luck with all of this. I reload Fiocchi hulls & find them as good with reloads as the rest (I use Fiocchi primers in them).
 

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Michael, Just a little tip here. If your the kind the guy who likes to tinker around in the garage. Likes to fix things and do the repairs around the house and such. Then reloading should work out fine for you. If you dislike to tinker. Fixing the little things around the house is such a bother to you. Then it will not take long for you to really dislike reloading. Most shooters start reloading to save a few bucks. Which if fine. But, It takes a huge investment to get started. You need at a min. to get started. 12 lbs of powder for one oz. loads. 13 bags of shot. 5000 wads, and 5000 primers. Then you add in the price of the reloader you select. Then add in the price of a good scale. I'll let you fill in the price here? This is enough components to load up 20 flats of shells. Now you can do the math and see if buying components at this time is worth it. You can also google. Shotgun reloading cost calculator. click on the one called ECSC-Skeet.com. Then simply place your components costs into their calculator and click the calculate button. You can also factor in the cost of reloaded shells with the cost of your hulls built into the equation!!! But if you dislike tinkering around the house. Do not bother to get into reloading. Its not for everyone. Some folks are just better off writing a check to get things done around the house. LOL. PS I almost forgot. You have to have the time to reload as well. If your retired, that's great!!! If your still working, you may not have the time to reload and shoot every week. It takes me about 30 minutes to load and box 100 shells on a progressive loader. It will take me about 40-45 minutes to load and box 100 shells on a single stage loader. This also takes into account of checking each hull before you load it. You have to check for splits up the sides, split brass, and look at the ends for bad splits, or even a missing section on a 8 point crimp. You also need a reloading room and a storage cabinet if you have kids around. to lock up all your components. You don't want kids playing with powder or primers when your not around. I hope I gave you something to think about. Before you go spend the approximated $1,500 needed to get started. break em all jeff
 

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Startup costs can be reduced somewhat, buying used reloading equipment, just pays to have someone experienced in it to help you not wasting your money on junk. Lots of people quit reloading the last ten years because new shell cost was same as reloaded. Now that trend may be reversing unless components remain inaccessible.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks again all.

Jeff, to answer your question. With the exception of some electrical and some plumbing, I fix and tinker with everything around the house. Same with all our vehicles and my motorcycles. All of my hobbies have a tinkering component to them. Which, by the way, was why I was looking in to reloading in the first place. I know it's not guaranteed to be a money saver, and I realize that especially now, it's costly and components are hard to find. I don't have any aspirations to reload flats upon flats yet. I wanted to try it to see how I liked it and to come up with loads that I like to shoot. I'll grant you it's an expensive experiment, but then again, all my hobbies are expensive. I may find I really like it and it's relaxing, or I may find it's a complete pain. We'll see. All I know is that I want to ensure I'm going about it the right way and doing it safely.

oh - and as an lol on time....between work, going back to school, two young daughters, and competing in observed trials motorcycle competitions...yeah....that's the most complicated part of this equation :)

Michael
 
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