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Got my XX12 last week here in Phoenix and have put it put it to work. Have put 1000+ rounds through it already and it is excellent. Lights out in doubles. Takes some time to adapt to shooting autoloader compared to my Beretta DT 10 Combo. It has already become my front line doubles gun.
 

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The bashing was never about the gun. It was directed at the misinformation coming out of the company, and they deserved every bit of it.
 

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dickgtax--absolutely right on! I will shed a little more light on the Butler saga. JDSfarms (see my previous butler thread) apparently does not know me as well as he thought he did when it comes to my appetite to purchase trap guns!

I talked to Butler on Wed (left one voice mail and one email on Tues) I received a call from Jason (yes the young man who has been traveling in the big 5th wheel with the demo guns). They now have at least one dealer lined up and that dealer had one XX12 which he just received this week. I used the word "had" because I purchased the gun and it is in transit to me. Here's the part I found really interesting, the serial number of my gun is 14. So unless they have a really unique way of numbering their guns, there aren't very many in the hands of shooters. Remember they supposedly started shipping on December 15th (this is verbatim from Butler's website).

For those that question the cost of the Butler, I think Mark Zauhar in another thread said it best. What I do know is for what my Silver Seitz single barrel and over under cost, I could have 4 Butlers.

Will I like the gun, only time will tell. If I don't, it won't be the first trap gun I have purchased and later sold.
 

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To add to dickgtax`s premise about misinformation coming from Butler.

I saw thses guns at the Grand.

There were two different Butler reps showing them. One named Jason Lee and the other Shane Johnson.

The first day I looked at them, one of these guys, (and I don`t remember which one) showed me how to take apart the gun and reassemble it. He also told me Butler had 20 prototypes built and distributed. These were being shot and test results were being fed back to Butler.

The next day the other person, of the two named above, was manning the 5th wheel. He also demo`d the gun. In talking he told me there were 4 test guns built and being shot.

What happened to the other 16?

It gave me an uneasy feeling when the Butler reps can`t get their stories straight.

I am glad these guns are starting to become available. Especially glad for the guys who had money down on them.

Hopefully everyone who wants a Butler will get one.
 

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ddspc what do u ehink of carbon fiber rib. has any cracks developed or anything strange i am curious as this is new technolgy for ribs. they seem to be very delicate at over lap at rear of barrel. thnks howard
 

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Carbon fiber rib is great. No issues with it. Carbon fiber material is super strong and durable. Al
 

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I've been a salesman for most of my career. I've never lied to make or keep a sale. If anything, and most real pro salespeople will tell you the same thing, the customer, even a priest, will lie to a salesman. But we need customers regardless of that fact and soooooooo, we eat a turd sandwich once in a while and smile broadly as we make a bank deposit.

That carbon fiber rib will be working like a champ when they're making beer cans out of the aluminum ribs.
 

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Professional Salesmen never lie!!!!!!! They just modify the truth. Add or leave things out when necessary. Never divulge the complete truth, etc, etc, etc......Everyone lies. Salesmen are just better at it than "Rubes."
 

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Salesmen stand right next to Lawyers when it comes to be deceptive, ask an honest one and he will tell you "what ever it takes to bring home the bacon" ... It usually starts with I have never lied to make a sale .... WPT ... (YAC) ...
 

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Bullshit. The definition of a professional salesperson is the one who develops a solid trust between themselves and their customers. Repeat business is the goal.........not "what ever it takes to bring home the bacon."

You can only get repeat business two ways. Cheap pricing and/or honesty. Businesses.....the one's that stay afloat, are those that practice either or both.

Do people that sell lie? Sure, but they don't last long and are not pros by any means. Don't paint all salespeople with the same broad brush.
 

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shotgun410ga I take offense to all salesman being liars, not true. Sir I owned a independent sales rep company for most of my life and can tell you I never lied to my customers or consumers or did my people to get a sale (my salesman would not of had a job if they did). We would sometimes be under a 1 year contract and some had a 30 day clause in it, don't keep a job for long if your not honest or work hard (didn't have expense account either). Most of the companies we represented we shared so many wonderful successful years together as partners in the business and lifetime friendship. Without our trust with our customers we would never had been successful.

Manufacturer sometimes run into problems with new products and shit does happen.
If a company promised a delivery date and didn't make the deadline I was the first to explain why, what happened and apologize for it.
 

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DDSPC-thank you for sharing your information regarding the Butler XX12. My post was an attempt to provide more clarity to the ongoing Butler saga.

Sorry it turned into a salesman bashing thread, but unfortunately that happens all to often with this site.
 

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ddspc thnks for the reply. dont know much about carbon fiber and was curious now that cold weather is hear and some people have their guns if any issues.thnks again and enjoy the new toy howard
 

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I stand by what I said, don't care who likes it or not, thats my opinion based on experience ... I always get it in writing, no exceptions ... I never said 'liar", I said deceptive ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
 
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