[phatkaw]

Ok, all I have is some old Australian Clays right now. I have a couple hundred violet colored Fiocchi's I wanted to load for my daughter. (they are pretty) lol
I have just about the same amount of 12S3s left. Perfect right ?
Well, Hodgdon's site only shows IMR powder for Fiocchi target hulls. WTF?
So I check Federal hull data and got some options... Also they have Fiocchi (low base wad) hull data, and Cheddite hull data... All straight walled hulls.
Why would they only have IMR data for the target hulls ? 'Cause that's all they tested with or sumthin' ?

I really wouldn't be worried about using their data for the Fed' hulls or the Fiocchi (low base wad ) hulls if it was similar, but they're really not very close.

What do yins think?

 

[birdk9]

In my opinion, your looking at problems on multiple fronts.
1.) 1 1/8 oz loads are pushing to close to the top with Clays. Fed GM @ 1145 fps is already @9500 psi. Not enough room for me to want to make a mistake.
There is not even a listing for a 1200 fps load using Fed GM, Fio primers, 12s3 wads and Clays power. What does that tell you.
2.) Fit or stack height in the hull is probably going to require having a couple of different wads on hand to get the correct height for a good crimp.
If you are going to try a 1 ounce load then I think you have lots of room to work with.
Fed GM data has Clays going 1180 fps with 7700 psi. Lots of room to work with. Once again grab about four different wads to find the one to get a good stack height.
OEM 12S0, Claybuster 12S0, Down Range 12S0, and CB6100. They are all different heights with the same ballistic qualities.
On a one ounce load, for the PITA its going to be, finding a load to fit in the hull and get a good crimp, I wouldn't go through the exercise. Now if someone has a load they have already compiled I would think about it.
From your post, you have the hull and only one style of wad. Do you have the Fio primers? Check that, Final answer - All adds up to a bad idea.

 

[Nebs]

Because you mention the 12S3 wad, I infer you are looking for a 1 1/8 oz. load for use in a Fiocchi hull using Clays powder. I have a 2005 printed Hodgdon manual that has data. With a Federal 209A primer, 16.5 gr. gets you 1090 fps and 9100 psi while 17 gr. gets you 1145 fps at 10,000 psi. Is this the type of information you were looking for? The header for the Fiocchi section specifically says "low basewad."

Lyman's #5 has a Clays load, but it uses a WAA12 wad and a Win primer. 19.5 gr. gets you 1190 fps and 8500 psi.

 

[phatkaw]

^^^ Thanks guys ! Yep lookin' for a 9/8oz load. Not really caring about what speed I ended up getting. just hoping for 10,000ish psi.
I got some Fed 209As to use up...
Loading with a 366 but I have a bunch of P/W bushings - my 'I' drops 16gr and my 'K' drops 18gr of Clays. Didn't check my 'J' yet...

I loaded 1 round @16gr and a couple @ 18gr just for fun & to check out stack height and crimp. They turned out just fine...

I'm really not thrilled about the 18gr load though - at least till I find out what hull them purple suckers really are.

I might tear down the 366 later tonight and stick my 'J' bushing in and weigh some drops from that ??? We'll see...

Still kinda baffled why Fiocchi (target) hulls only have IMR data???

 

[phatkaw]

In my opinion, your looking at problems on multiple fronts.

That's why I wanted some opinions. Don't want to venture off too far into 'the unknown'. lol

 

[Nebs]

The powder looks touchy behind the Fed primer. That extra .5 gr. produced 900 psi more. 18 gr. is 2 gr. more and I would hesitate before making up any more of them. Also, you say this is for your daughter. That 1090 fps load might be the ticket with less recoil.

 

[birdk9]

Measure the internal depth to see how they compare. I still think its a bad idea. Get as much information as you can.
Send a PM Moman. He used to load a bunch of Euro hulls. Not sure if he ever loads 1-1/8. He is a resource.

Be safe.

 

[phatkaw]

The powder looks touchy behind the Fed primer.

Agreed !

 

[phatkaw]

Get as much information as you can.

That's my intension... :coffee-n-news:

 

[Nebs]

Get some Hornady bushings to refine your powder drops.

 

[rrp]

National Center for Forensic Science- Smokeless powder base

Found this site for ID of powders. May be helpful to reloaders. I don't know how to link to site.I don't know how to start a new thread. Do a search for the title, National Center for Forensic Science- Smokeless powder base. Cheers RRP

 

[HSLDS]

Give Fiocchi USA a call - 417-725-4118 (Ozark, MO)

Good people and they might point you in the right direction.

 

[phatkaw]

Yea, I never thought to call them. Good idea ! thanks

 

[phatkaw]

Because you mention the 12S3 wad, I infer you are looking for a 1 1/8 oz. load for use in a Fiocchi hull using Clays powder. I have a 2005 printed Hodgdon manual that has data. With a Federal 209A primer, 16.5 gr. gets you 1090 fps and 9100 psi while 17 gr. gets you 1145 fps at 10,000 psi. Is this the type of information you were looking for? The header for the Fiocchi section specifically says "low basewad."

Get this - My 'J' bushing drops 17gr !
Pretty happy about that !
I weighed ten... 17.4 - 16.9 - 17.1 - 17.0 - 16,9 - 17.0 - 17.0 - 17.0 - 16.9 - 17.1 :1augen25:

 

[pheasantmaster]

Ok, all I have is some old Australian Clays right now. I have a couple hundred violet colored Fiocchi's I wanted to load for my daughter. (they are pretty) lol
I have just about the same amount of 12S3s left. Perfect right ?
Well, Hodgdon's site only shows IMR powder for Fiocchi target hulls. WTF?
So I check Federal hull data and got some options... Also they have Fiocchi (low base wad) hull data, and Cheddite hull data... All straight walled hulls.
Why would they only have IMR data for the target hulls ? 'Cause that's all they tested with or sumthin' ?

I really wouldn't be worried about using their data for the Fed' hulls or the Fiocchi (low base wad ) hulls if it was similar, but they're really not very close.

What do yins think?

View attachment 1663349 View attachment 1663351

Alittle that may help.

 

[Nebs]

Interesting, I've never heard of "Red Diamond" powder before.

 

[phatkaw]

Alittle that may help.

Thanks Martin !
It's late & I just got home from a shitty day ! I'll check that out better tomorrow when I can see it...

 

[phatkaw]

Alittle that may help

Hey Martin, the picture on the left - are those typos or is there really Federal wads called 1233 and 1283 ?

 

[Nebs]

In addition to "Red Diamond" powder, I've never heard of "#2 Improved" powder either. What data manual is that?

 

[pheasantmaster]

Hey Martin, the picture on the left - are those typos or is there really Federal wads called 1233 and 1283 ?

They are typos. Should be 12S3.

In addition to "Red Diamond" powder, I've never heard of "#2 Improved" powder either. What data manual is that?

One was a Scott Powder company formation and the other was a Western Powder company product. However #2 may have been Accurate.

In the 80's and 90's startup companies and/or foreign based were trying to grab a market piece. Most either didn't device or were bought out.

Reloading for Shotgunners 4th Edition. It was laying by my easy chair.