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I need some hints on loading a soft shooting 1 1/8 ounce load. I normally only shoot 1 ounce loads running around 1185 to 1200 as that is all the recoil I want for the volume I shoot. My main interest now is Sporting but I do shoot a lot of Trap in practice...(okay..some skeet too but just the crossers so don't hate me yet)..
A friend told me his load which is as follows:
AA or STS hull
19.2 gr International
616 or Fed primer
Fed 12s3 knockoff claybuster wad
runs around just under 1200fps
he said pressures were lower with the STS hull

I have only AA and STS hulls but more of the STS.

Ideas? Favorites?

Thanks for your time!
 

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From www.alliant.com reloading:
Remington or AA hull:
1 1/8 oz 7.5's
19.5 grains Green Dot
DRA12 wads
Winchester primer

My wife loves this load in her 682. She shoots a lot of skeet (all subgauge 3/4 oz or less) but she can shoot these loads with no problems on the sporting course.

Take care,
Rhett
 

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Hardage

It is an utter and absolute myth that you can get softer recoil by using one powder over another.

Recoil is due to the weight of the ejecta and the muzzle velocity, and the weight of the gun.

In order to get a soft shooting 1-1/8 ounce load, you need to reduce the muzzle velocity substantially (or add weight to your gun.)

If you want it softer than your 1 ounce loads, you need to look at about 1000 fps muzzle velocity.

A/24/B (Oh, and I'm a registered professional mechanical engineer, if that adds any credibility to my post....some folks want credentials)
 

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1 1/8 is what it is. Sure there are other slower burning powders out there to possible soften the load, but you will have subpar chamber pressure and in turn a dirty gun.
 

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PB and 7625 are crazy expensive and way too dirty if you use a gas gun and they both take a couple of heaping tablespoons to make a good laod. But then that's just me.
 

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I firmly believe that I can tell the difference between powders and their recoil impulse. I used International for handicap for several years (around 20 grs behind a 1 1/8 oz load) then read several notes from Neil and tried Green Dot. The same amount of Green Dot is more comfortable to me and I stay in the gun better. With the rem hull use 19.5/20gr of Green Dot with the Downrange F8, 1 1/8 mag shot and an appropriate primer (I now use Cheddite) for a comfortable handicap and second shot at doubles. Right around 1200fps.
JMHO
John
 

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John.. You're both correct.. The recoil.. if everything else is the same.. IS the same.. To some.. the perceived recoil is different.. My 19.6 grains of Promo at 1330 fps I was told by quite a few of the Olympic shooters.. cracked more than their shells.. Chrony set up.. and tested.. shells cut open and parts weighed.. all was same/same.. BUT.. their shells did seem to have less recoil... Not a whole bunch.. but I could perceive what they were speaking about..
 

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Say what you will, but Neil Winston did a pretty well thought out test which showed that nobody could perceive a difference with any more reliability than random guessing. He used people who were believers, non believers, and folks who were ambivalent.
 

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To each his own.. if everything fits..The difference is small.. maybe unnoticable to many.. Give it to a shooter who's comb is biting his cheek... or 5 of the lady Olympic shooters who average 120 pounds total weight.. including the shell vest..you might see vastly different answers than the average 200 pound.. 9.5pound trap gun shooter.. Anyone can dispute anything.. and all of us have our reasons we are absolutely sure is correct..I still say some of us are more recoil sensative than others.. That's my story.. and I'm sticking to it..
 

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Timb99....I will have to disagree with your assertion there is no difference in perceived recoil of two like payload/velocity shells. Why is there so many different burn rate powders??? With your impressive engineering credentials, maybe you could explain why it hurts more to run into a car to get it moving (read fast burning powder propelling a payload) rather than slowly push with your legs to get it moving (read slow burning powder propelling same payload to motion)? One hurts, one does not...moving same payload. By the way....I will load a 1200fps load with 700x and a 1200fps load with Intl Clays both 1 1/8oz. I will GUARANTEE you I will tell you which shell is which due to recoil..felt/perceived/implied/call it what you will. Not trying to be argumentative, but it is what it is......Jerry
 

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My dad and I find 19gr. of super target in a sts or AA hull with a AA copy claybuster wad and a win. or cheddite primer is as soft shooting as it gets in a 1 1/8oz. load.
 

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timb99,

Regrettably, I was also an engineer - Mechanical. I am 60; and over the years I have learned that it can be a waste of time to confuse people with facts. When I entered "Management", it was soon apparent that how you say things will be more important than what you say. Being "right" can piss people off.

My "answer" is "I cannot tell the difference in recoil by changing powders but I load to 1100 fps and that works for me". This may elicit pity. (Poor Don is so screwed up)

Proving they are "wrong" is of little value to me. If they can "feel" the difference, then perception is reality; and there is no harm. They are happy. End of story.

I recall getting into it with a guy who insisted that longer forcing cones reduce recoil. I should have known better. Another "expert" can tell tell the difference in recoil between a M and F choke.

Neil has taken abuse trying to address these old wives tales. Some people have gone so far to state he somehow "tainted" or "skewed" the tests. See what I mean about pissing people off?

Don Verna
 

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Hardage,

For what is worth, I load 16-16.5 gr of Promo with the WAA12 Wad and Win 209's in a AA or STS hull. Somewhere about 1100-1125 fps. My 120 lb girlfriend shoots it too.

Don Verna
 

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Don.. we're close.. I've loaded 17 grains of Promo.. DRVersalite wad.. Winchester primer.. Remington hull.. 1 1/8 oz shot.. and it was a very soft but effective load.. My friends who shot slower shells had amazing results from the 27 yard line with these shells..
 

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I went to ther following load: 1 1/8 oz #8, windjammer wad, fiochi 616 primer, STS hull, 15.9 gr Clays. It runs approximately 1090 fps. Very soft shooting, calculated recoil equals a 7/8 load at 1200 fps. Bobk
 

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I see no one has mentioned E3. I've been uwsing it since it came out with very good results. I run STS with Windjammer 1-1/8 at around 1,200 (chronoed 2 weeks ago) and it seems fairly soft shooting. I use it in both my 1100 and 682. I can't tell you what the powder charge is cause that's in the gun room and I don't want to get off my ass and go look!

YMMV

Tom
 

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"I normally only shoot 1 ounce loads running around 1185 to 1200 as that is all the recoil I want...."

...About the same free recoil energy as 1 & 1/8 ounce @ 1100 fps. Don't know where you would find published recipes at that velocity. You might choose whatever 2 & 3/4 DE, 1 & 1/8 ounce load (1145 fps) that fits your components and try it. If it kicks too much, drop .5 grain at a time until you're happy with the recoil or you begin to get off-sounding reports.
 
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