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Discussion Starter #1
Seems poor Snowden is worried about being snuffed out..he should..The unenforced oath that is killing this nation." I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God." There is no longer sacred honor or integrity left in our government on either side of the aisle or in the judicial or executive branches..... Not honoring your oath is an act of treason. Instead of "So help me God" how about "Or I will Hang by the neck until dead with no appeal" Remember the roots of this Nation. Read the declaration of independence. L'est the rest of us who never signed up and served forget...CalMD
 

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Traitor or patriot?

He's both.

He did a lot of damage, especially revealing our spying on our overseas friends.

But by the same token he did a lot of whistleblowing, opening up the eyes of many Americans, showing just how far their own government has taken domestic spying that flushes the Constitution and Bill of Rights down the toilet.
 

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Including those who violate the Constitution and Bill of Rights?
 

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And what do you do when you find the enemy is your own government?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Lotsa ways to out them without selling your countries secrets to the highest foreign bidder..this was all about money or a grudge
 

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Cal MD,

How did Snowden benefit monetarily? Also what's the grudge? It's pure speculation on your part unless you have some viable proof.

The real weasel occupies the White house and his policies were exposed by Snowden.
 

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When it comes to gathering information, we aren't doing anything other countries aren't doing. "Trust but verify" is always a good policy. Countries do not have friends. They have allies with hopefully similar goals. Look at all of the cyber attacks coming from overseas. Do you want them to know more than we do? If you haven't been exposed to security operations, you have no idea... Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #8
We are not doing anything different gathering intelligence than we have since NSA was started and technology progressed!!! Who was in the WH made NO DIFF..as to the money..true I have no proof...but you can bet your ass Snowden is living comfortable on Moscows dime and not his Govt employee salary savings..a lot of people died upholding that oath,..my family ,..my friends,..be grateful or be gone...all govt has some degree of corruption and abuse but its the best we got until we stop letting the imbeciles of this country outnumber those with brains and putting a dork in office
 

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Molon Labe
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Being a giverment contractor I doubt he was ever given the oath

But it doesn't change anything
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Govt contractors sign proprietory agreements since the companies future contract competitive eligibility can be revoked immediately and permanently...I put in almost 40yrs total in the military/civil servant/govt contractor realms..unless you've been deeply inside all 3, ..you are lacking in how the big picture works
 

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Every one of those countries knew what was going on. The only ones that did not know were you and me. I know now and I say whistleblower/hero.

And if you have doubts... Just keep on saying what you want on the phone and on emails and texts. I will be circumspect.
 

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If they don't run, the Patriot Act will make sure they just disappear.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Every ship has rats...do you sink the whole thing just to drown them???? think about it...if you want a whistle to blow..the American Free world media is the loudest whistle in the universe and could never be ignored with a serious scoop as this young man has....if one piece of intercepted comm info had a tip that saved the innocent lives of your sons or daughters in Afghanistan or while they are working at a foreign embassy that was a planned terrorist target that got thwarted...would you still bitch about how it was acquired,..unless you are retarded I think not,..funny how when it heads off direct personal tragedy you'll suddenly become OK with it...you CANT have it all..total privacy and freedom OR total piece of mind that some background watchdogs are protecting our measly puny little lives..unless you're into something bad you have nothing to worry about,..JUST never let don't your guard down or surrender your ability to fight back when the watchdog (govt) oversteps their boundry!!!!Its a very fine line and this is a very different AND dangerous world we live in and the Constitution took this into account 2 and a half centuries ago...they were the very wisest of men of vision then and STILL would be TODAY!!!
 

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Calvin,
What segment of collectors are civilians vs military collectors/analyst ? The last time I checked, it was still against federal law for the military to conduct intelligence operations on American civilians inside the U.S. By the way, isn't DIRNSA a U.S. military flag officer? Elected officials, including the President and his cabinet officers do not have a security clearance, they sign a statement of non disclosure. Many would not be eligible for a TS clearance under the regs.

Van
 

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Can someone please tell me when Snowden swore this oath???? He wasn't in the military or elected or appointed position. Therefore he didn't. His "oath" was the little piece of paper that he signed in order to obtain his Top Secret clearance. If you ignore the possible damage that he has done to this country by revelations of classified materials, he is (presumed) guilty of perjury and whatever other laws that were in the fine print of the clearance application(s). I signed the same application and before I got my TS, you get briefed by either the FBI or Defense Dept. Investigative Services and get the shi- scared out of you.

blade819
 

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Molon Labe
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Blade did you know that a top secret security clearance stay on the books all your life? At least that is what an FBI agent that interviewed me for a security clearance at the BEP in Fort Worth told me, I got one in 72 when I was in the USAF

I remember I had to have I think it was 32 or maybe 36 references, and they needed to be good, I had my Mom send me the local phone book, it was from a small NW Iowa town about 1/4 of an inch thick, I found the names of all the farmers I had baled hay, shelled corn or walked beans for and put them down. And the FBI went and talked to everyone. Guess I must have been a good hand, they all gave me a good review
 

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Catpower... any clearance, including the lowest BI (Background Investigation) to a Top Secret with many levels has to be renewed periodically. The Security Dept. where you work generally handles this. However, with Secret and above they have to be justified when renewed I think every two years. This and other safeguards where put into place because of the Walkers in the late 80's. I've been unemployed for about 2 years now and my "inactive" Top Secret has expired. To get another one, I would have to go through the entire very painful process from the beginning. A Secret and above are getting harder and harder and are very expensive, something your employer must pay for. My last Top Secret took about 6 months. Secrets are now all electronic so they take about a couple of weeks depending on what your background check uncovers.

blaqde819
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Some of you all missed the point entirely...He is a traitor for giving material to a foreign govt,..for that he should die ...sorry...if he just blew a whistle is one thing...but what he did was treason...and if the damage he has done allows something bad to happen that our compromised ability to collect was unable to prevent..I just pray its none of you or your family in harms way when it does....Remember you have to keep your friends close and your enemies CLOSER
 
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