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Discussion Starter #1
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Assuming the flying clay target is perfectly centered in the Full choked Remington Nitro 27 shot pattern…

Which target is more likely not to break ?

A straight-away from station 3 ?

Or a hard right crossing target from station 5 ?

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Assuming the same gun to target distance in both cases, two factors at play are:

Reduced effective pattern density in the case of the crosser . . .

Reduced net striking energy for the directly going away case.

Which one plays out the most (but will still be a small effect) depends on the pattern density, target distance (pellet speed), and probably some other things.


Andrew.
 

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Eddie, One pellet strike in the right place will break a clay into clearly visible pieces. Four pellet strikes in the wrong place won't. It's almost always a single pellet that breaks a clay (though others may follow along and further break the initial pieces).

Andrew.
 

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The straight away from post 3. Because the crosser can run into pellets and the straight away can't. HMB
 

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What brand of clay? I personally have picked up unbroken champion clays with several holes in them. That aside the straight is more likely to get away IMHO. Bill
 

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The straight away from post 3. Because the crosser can run into pellets and the straight away can't. HMB


Using the same logic: The crosser because it can run out of the way of pellets that otherwise would have hit it.

I'll attribute that to HMB too since it's basically the same argument.
 

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Would the fact of the shot being strung out have an effect on the angle bird?

Depending on when the straight away bird is shot, like at the crown of the flight, the whole shot string would likely pass by the bird. The angle target would possibly avoid some of those pellets in the very front, and rear of the shot string, because it is flying through the shot string at an angle.

The pattern is not what it looks like on paper, in reality.

Does not mean one target is less likely to break over the other though, depending on where the one, two, or maybe more pellets hit the bird on any given shot. I guess the odds would be better on the straight away.

Which bird would you rather be? LOL
 

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The biggest factor is: Eye & Hand Control

If you're an average person...then you'll only break an average number of targets for that day...considering weather, wind, available sunlight, etc.....

But, if you feel you are an exceptional shooter....then please play all the options.

Thanks you so much!!

Curt
 

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Putting some numbers on this . . .


Assume the pellets are moving at 800fps and the target at 45fps.

In the going away case the net pellet energy is proportional to the square of the pellet speed minus the square of the target speed, i.e. proportional to 800^2 - 45^2. This is a reduction of 0.3% in energy versus a static target.

The angular target is going away at Sin(67.5) * 45fps = 41.57fps, and with the same methos as above suggests that the loss in pellet energy is ~0.27%.

The difference in pellet strike energies for the two target cases is therefore ~0.03%. Pellet strike energies affect the probability that any individual pellet strike will break the clay. If the pellets are high energy then 0.03% change will make less difference . . and in this case for US#7.5s, the pellets are fairly energetic c/w what's needed to break a clay. The reason for this thinking is that energetic pellets can break clays even when the impact is glancing. But to make the pellet effective at even shallower impact angles takes a disproportionately larger amount of energy, ergo, a small change in energy has little effect.

Ed Lowry did all the sums on crossing targets and how the chance of a pellet strike reduces. Using his method we get something like a loss in PE of 0.3%, which according to my sums (http://www.shotgun-insight.com/PatternOptimiser.html) will reduce the chance of a pellet strike in the centre of the pattern by 0.1% or so.

So, my tentative conclusion is the crossing case is more likely to suffer a failure to break despite perfect pattern placement . . . but the effect is tiny.

Andrew.
 

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Due to the cone shape of a shot pattern; i.e., 3 dimensional in nature, a straight away from Station 3 would give the opportunity that the front part of the pattern would hit the target followed by pellets in the shot string. On angles, most likely some of the the front part of the pattern would have likely passed in front of the target (hard right angle from station 5) and the target would be broken by pellets somewhere in the depth of the pattern; i.e., shot string. I have proven this many times when I shot targets with my modified BT-99 with .020 choke; i.e., rarely fully smoked a hard left or right from stations 1 & 5 respectively. Straightaways often fully smoked when I do my part. I've always envisioned this as a target trying to survive a meteor field. The denser the field the less likely a target would slip through so that's why I'm more comfortable with a full choke although the modified choke served me well back to the 25 yard line. BT100dc
 

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PERFECTLY centered----- the straight away will be ground & reground due to the fact that it will have to run through the entire shot string whereas the angle will be in the shot string a shorter time hence less pellet strikes. This unless you are one of those that think your pattern is that nice flat--round pancake pattern you see on the pattern board.

Personally I don't think the leading pellets automatically slow down, or the trailing pellets speed up until they are all traveling in a perfect "pancake". But I've been wrong before. Ross Puls
 

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GW, that is a good example of what Dr. Jones stated . The dome isn't a vital organ. I have seen many like the one picured but a hole in the rim would be very rare because it only takes one pellet to break the rim. Most of the time, anyway.
 
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