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Discussion Starter #1
Looking ahead to when I run out of my current supply of shells, if I'm still unable to get the reloading components I need, I'm going to try some factory shells. I'm considering Mirage shells due to availability and cost. They list a "competition light" and a "super target" both at 1200'/sec with a 1oz. load. What's the difference ? Also any experience with these shells would be appreciated.
Thanks
 

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Very high quality ammunition. I 'think' the main dif aside from the hull's color between the Super Target & the Comp Light is the powder being used. There may also be a dif in the head's [brass] height, but I'm not where I can put the two side by side just now.

I've bought & shot many a flat of both; never had a 'dud' or FTF and when pointed correctly the clay targets always break. I don't always point the target correctly, but that's a dif issue.
 

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Clever Mirage is a very high quality Italian brand.

Used by a lot of Olympic shooters.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Response to a couple questions:

-Yes, I believe they are "Clever" Mirage

-Gene Sears Supply (1 800 522 3314) in El Reno, Oklahoma seems to have a good stock of them on hand

Thanks for the inputs.
 

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We were going to buy several pallets after shooting them at sporting clays in Texas. Soft recoil for a 1250 fps shell. Had several boxes left over when we got back to town so my brother shot a few over the chrono. Not a single shell made it past 1150 fps. Now before you say they were tested improperly, they also shot some Nitro 27's and Game bore. Both other brands were within 20 fps of their posted speeds. There is always a reason if they dont kick as much as everything else. We passed on the good deal on the 5 pallets. JW
 

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No kidding...well that explains it. I think I'll chrono some here in Ft. Worth too.

I really noticed a considerable difference in recoil right off with the 1200 fps stuff.

However...I believe they must pattern very well and because the targets are total dust when hit....which is a great confidence builder.

Stan
 

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I have shot several hundred flats of Mirages. I use the T3 and T4's in 1oz 1285fps. They will smack a target like the AA or STS 1290's. They do have hard primes, like most loads from oversea's. I love them.

William
 

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Remember
the posted velocity's for EU shells is at the muzzle
The posted velocity's for US shells is at 3ft. from the muzzle

So if you are chrono to match the posted velocity do it at the proper point from the muzzle

typically the drop in velocity from the muzzle and at 3 ft is about 50 - 75 FPS
 

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I have shot about 2000 of these in FITASC events purchased at the host site and really like them

I shoot the Remmington Nitro 1oz at 1330 and the recoil is about the same for the Cleve Mirage T4 1oz
performs about the same

The Clever T4 is my second choice when the Rem is unavailable as it is now, as they are on Back order
 

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I'm not taking any sides here but here is a little more input on Mirage shells...

I spoke to Gene at Gene Sears last week and the Mirage chrono question came up during that conversation... Gene is a first class champion shooter himself. He told me that they had done quite a bit of chrono work on the Mirage shells and that their results indicated the Mirage shells were right on the money.

He also said that on the European market that the Clever Mirage shells are about all the Europeans will will shoot in top competition events...they rarely shoot AA's at all..even though there is a plant there that makes them.

Stan...
 

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Several years ago there was a shell being imported from England under the name
"Hull." It was listed at 1410 fps, and was the softest shooting shell at that velocity in history - until it was chronographed by some shooters here at less
than 1200 fps. The difference was in how muzzle velocity was measured as Slewcity
has pointed out.
 

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If I may offer the following;


Clever is very well respected and they do manufacture some of the finest ammo available. Their T4 line of cartridges (Pro Extra, Pro Extra Paper, Bol D'Oro & Evolution) are on par with B&P F2 Flash, RC-4 Champions and Fiocchi Gold Trap or Official Team. All of these loads are what the top Olympic shooters from around the world use in training and competition.


The reference to AA's in Europe is misleading, as European AA's are not owned or manufactured by Winchester. They do have a working relationship with one another, but they are a separate company that has the European rights to the name since at least the early 80's. When I first started shooting Olympic Trap in Europe, I used the Italian AA Trap 100, 200 & 300's before being sponsored by B&P. We were at the B&P Plant recently and B&P is actually loading European AA's, European Remingtons and Fiocchi hunting loads. The details of who's really manufacturing what products can be very confusing in Europe.


Best Regards,


Allen Chubb - President - Chubb International Shooting Sports, Inc.
 

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Truly unbelievable that cross-Atlantic ammo is be talked about as less expensive. Am I the only one here that wonders why that is?

Brady
 

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Thanks for that info Allen..

What about the T2 line of Mirage shells compared to the T4 line? What are the differences there?


...and Brady...I wondered about that too. You don't suppose they are Italian via China do you...LOL!

...Stan
 

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It is really ironic that this thread started as I was just down at the Dixie and a couple guys were shooting these shells and commenting on how soft they shoot. Saturday during the singles 200 I was watching them and they both were ink-spotting targets. I was parked next to them and I believe they were from the Southeast. So, Who, Where is selling them.
 

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Stan,


The T2's are okay for a normal club training round, but the king of their cartridges are the T4 line. This is like comparing apples to zebras. The T4 is a precision crafted cartridge with superior components versus the T2 which is your street average round for the typical lead throwing shooter. Keystone Shooting Parks shipment is on the water as we speak. We're receiving 450 cases of both the T3's and T4's from Carl Emilson is Florida. Carl is the East Coast importer for Clever. Gene Sears handles the Mid-West. Carl is bringing in a container (2,000 cases) monthly. According to what he conveyed to me, most of his cartridges are of the one ounce variety. We're bringing in the 24 gram Olympic loads for our patrons and members. Below is a photograph of the world's largest Clever T4 Pro Extra Cartridge which located on the range at Lonato, Italy. Don't ask me what gauge it is.


Best Regards,


Allen Chubb - President - Chubb International Shooting Sports, Inc.



 

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Gentlemen,


Here's a photo of the finished cartridge warehouse for B&P in Bologna, Italy. This is one row of more than 40 rows. If you look straight through the metal racking system on the second photo, you'll see some blue and white Italian Fiocchi cartridge cases on the floor, which B&P loaded for them and they had stocked in their warehouse.


Best Regards,


Allen Chubb - President - Chubb International Shooting Sports, Inc.






 
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