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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this is something that can't really be figured out over the internet, and I'll get a stock fitting one of these days, but something occurred to me just now and I wondered what others thought.

Here's my story (apologies in advance for the length): I shot trap for a number of years, without any coaching or instruction...just sort of making it up as I went. I eventually got to the point where I could shoot 23's, 24's, and even the occasional 25 without too much trouble. Then I moved across the country and stopped shooting altogether. Fast forward about 4 years, and I've just recently decided to start shooting trap again. My first time back out, I was fortunate to shoot with a number of very good (All-American) shooters, and one of the first things someone said to me was that my face was way too far back on the stock.

Knowing that I had no real idea what I was doing and they did, I've been trying to get my face further forward on the stock, but it requires a whole lot of forward neck/shoulder movement and I find that my head is in a very different position than I'm used to having it. I normally (or historically) shot with my head in a very upright position, and now it's sort of stretching forward instead of being upright. Perhaps as a result of this new head position (or just because I'm rusty), my scores are pretty terrible lately. I've been trying to figure out how best to get back to decent scores and it occurred to me that my stock might be too long for me. If it was shorter, it seems like I could have my face sufficiently forward on the stock AND have an upright head position. I've never had a gun fitting, so I have no real idea what the right LOP is for me.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here, or is it possible my LOP is too long for me?
 

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I know this is something that can't really be figured out over the internet, and I'll get a stock fitting one of these days, but something occurred to me just now and I wondered what others thought.

Here's my story (apologies in advance for the length): I shot trap for a number of years, without any coaching or instruction...just sort of making it up as I went. I eventually got to the point where I could shoot 23's, 24's, and even the occasional 25 without too much trouble. Then I moved across the country and stopped shooting altogether. Fast forward about 4 years, and I've just recently decided to start shooting trap again. My first time back out, I was fortunate to shoot with a number of very good (All-American) shooters, and one of the first things someone said to me was that my face was way too far back on the stock.

Knowing that I had no real idea what I was doing and they did, I've been trying to get my face further forward on the stock, but it requires a whole lot of forward neck/shoulder movement and I find that my head is in a very different position than I'm used to having it. I normally (or historically) shot with my head in a very upright position, and now it's sort of stretching forward instead of being upright. Perhaps as a result of this new head position (or just because I'm rusty), my scores are pretty terrible lately. I've been trying to figure out how best to get back to decent scores and it occurred to me that my stock might be too long for me. If it was shorter, it seems like I could have my face sufficiently forward on the stock AND have an upright head position. I've never had a gun fitting, so I have no real idea what the right LOP is for me.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here, or is it possible my LOP is too long for me?
All-Americans get to where they are in the scorebooks because they have the game down pat.One of the aspects of this game is gun fit.

Without pictures, its had to tell how the gun fits you. But I'll tell you if an All-American is telling you something to improve your game, then what do you have to lose? I'd certainly take his advice!

Good luck, and break them all!

John





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A stocks lop is very important. It's like trying on a pair of shoes, you will just know if it fits you. No one would say to you that your shoes look to long or they don't fit. Same thing with a stock, when it feels comfortable and you do not get kicked in the face there's a real good chance it fits you.

There are a lot of well intended shooters out there and the first thing you learn is only you know when a stock fits, no one else.
Good luck to you.
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
 

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The first sign of too long is right hand shooter binds up on a hard right on post 5 and shoots behind.
Coaches would tell you to try shooting with a thin pad and then cut the stock a little at a time.
Cut a little and shoot alot.

To long= short shoot angles
To short= run past angles

This is my opinion and works for me.
Others may have better ideas.

Henry
 

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Trying to force your head forward is not what anyone was suggesting.

A comfortable heads up gun mount would be great.

It sounds like you may need to shorten your stock.

Of course you want to be sure before cutting.

I would try a thin recoil pad see how it feels.

Or take the pad off and mount the gun and see how it feels.

If you are thinking about seeing a fitter now may be a good time.

Its All Good

West
 

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The first sign of too long is right hand shooter binds up on a hard right on post 5 and shoots behind.
Coaches would tell you to try shooting with a thin pad and then cut the stock a little at a time.
Cut a little and shoot alot.

To long= short shoot angles
To short= run past angles

This is my opinion and works for me.
Others may have better ideas.

Henry
Absolutely true.
 

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You are correct when you desire to shoot with your head and neck in a NATURALLY erect posture. That way your eyes are in their vertical centers of their sockets, which is the goal.

A good way to judge your gu's LOP is to mount the gun at a height that allows your head and neck to be naturally erect. With your cheek on the comb, have someone measure the separation of the tip of your nose and the second knuckle of your trigger-hand thumb.

The LOP is correct if that distance is 1.5 inxhs if youe gun mount is consistent and if it is very consistent, Gun mount consistency is very important because it aids in keeping the eye in the same relative position to the rib during swings. (When the eye moves relative to the rib when shots are fired, the pattern will move in the same direction.

Removing the recoil pad and checking the nose/thumb separation is one way to see how much it helps,

How tall are you and what do you weigh?

That will give us some idea of the correctness of the LOP on your current gun assuming that it has not been chaged from the factory length.

Rollin
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You are correct when you desire to shoot with your head and neck in a NATURALLY erect posture. That way your eyes are in their vertical centers of their sockets, which is the goal.

A good way to judge your gu's LOP is to mount the gun at a height that allows your head and neck to be naturally erect. With your cheek on the comb, have someone measure the separation of the tip of your nose and the second knuckle of your trigger-hand thumb.

The LOP is correct if that distance is 1.5 inxhs if youe gun mount is consistent and if it is very consistent, Gun mount consistency is very important because it aids in keeping the eye in the same relative position to the rib during swings. (When the eye moves relative to the rib when shots are fired, the pattern will move in the same direction.

Removing the recoil pad and checking the nose/thumb separation is one way to see how much it helps,

How tall are you and what do you weigh?

That will give us some idea of the correctness of the LOP on your current gun assuming that it has not been chaged from the factory length.

Rollin
I'm about 5'9", 185lbs. I measured my forearm from elbow to the first joint on my index finger (which I've heard is a thing), and it was 13.5". I also took the pad off my stock, as recommended, which gave me a LOP of 13.5", which seems really short, but felt pretty good. I'm tempted have a tiny bit taken off the stock.

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In my experience, personally and in coaching young shooters, it's much easier to shoot a gun that is too short as opposed to one that is too long. By-the-way, I'm also a stock crawler.

Steve
 

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I'm about 5'9", 185lbs. I measured my forearm from elbow to the first joint on my index finger (which I've heard is a thing), and it was 13.5". I also took the pad off my stock, as recommended, which gave me a LOP of 13.5", which seems really short, but felt pretty good. I'm tempted have a tiny bit taken off the stock.

It's not surprising that it was too short without the recoil pad. At hour height and weight, my estimate (guess) is that you would need to shorten the stock only a half-inch or so.

You found a great way to measure your arm length. Unfortunately, it is not a good estimate of the right LOP as it fails to consider "stock crawling," which describes leaning the neck forward to put the cheek on the comb, which you do not do.

Nor does it consider how you stand when you shoot, how much you rotate your stance. The more you rotate it the longer the LOP should be. On station 3 for example, it should be rotated no more than 45 degrees, and 30 degrees is even better.

When you measure the nose/thumb separation, be sure to wear the same clothing worn when shooting. If you live in a warm climate, heavier clothing worn in winter will not enter into the LOP determination.

Rollin
 

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What AA Trap said...IN SPADES! Much easier to shoot a short gun. For what it's worth-I am almost 6'-4" and am a stock crawler. My lop is 14-3/8"
I paid Wenig to tell me that what I thought was right---is right.
 

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You are correct when you desire to shoot with your head and neck in a NATURALLY erect posture. That way your eyes are in their vertical centers of their sockets, which is the goal.

A good way to judge your gu's LOP is to mount the gun at a height that allows your head and neck to be naturally erect. With your cheek on the comb, have someone measure the separation of the tip of your nose and the second knuckle of your trigger-hand thumb.

The LOP is correct if that distance is 1.5 inxhs if youe gun mount is consistent and if it is very consistent, Gun mount consistency is very important because it aids in keeping the eye in the same relative position to the rib during swings. (When the eye moves relative to the rib when shots are fired, the pattern will move in the same direction.

Removing the recoil pad and checking the nose/thumb separation is one way to see how much it helps,

How tall are you and what do you weigh?

That will give us some idea of the correctness of the LOP on your current gun assuming that it has not been chaged from the factory length.

Rollin
Then what say you about Kim Rhode's LOP. Looks way too long by your recommendation, yet she is a premier shooter.

kim.jpg
kim2.jpg
 

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In my opinion , if you once shot that gun well, it is time to figure out what changed for you. Revisit the basics of hold points, foot position , and gun mount. Perhaps ask your friends to chill for a month or so until you have done the aforementioned. They and many of the poster above may be spot on, but you have done it before and can do it again .
 

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Then what say you about Kim Rhode's LOP. Looks way too long by your recommendation, yet she is a premier shooter.

View attachment 1645925 View attachment 1645927
It looks to me that Kim is shooting two different guns in the pictures. Also the picture on the left Kim has not fully mounted what looks to be a long sporter or perhaps a trap set up. the picture on the right looks more like a fully mounted skeet set up. The hand on the rear end of the forearm is an old school set up which apparently still works. Can't tell from the pictures but it looks to me like she has a somewhat square to target stance i.e. not very bladed. All these things may play into the apparent contradiction. Rollin please weigh in if inclined. Could be wrong on all counts but am open to becoming more knowledgeable.[smile]
 

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I read a thread a while back on here and a pro on here said he prefered a bit to long over a bit to short I tend to agree I have had my thumb pound my nose a time or two.I would take pad off and also build up a little to what felt right even if I had to use wood and buy a box of rio 7/8 ounce low recoil and shoot a round trying different lenghts.When I bought my Kolar combo it was to long according to the stock fitter at the Card.Cen. he cut it about 3/8 inch I had shot a 100 st. before with it haven't since then and that was 3 yrs. ago.
 

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Then what say you about Kim Rhode's LOP. Looks way too long by your recommendation, yet she is a premier shooter.

View attachment 1645925 View attachment 1645927
I knew she’d come up so I say that’s what works for HER.
I read a thread a while back on here and a pro on here said he prefered a bit to long over a bit to short I tend to agree
I’d have to disagree. I’d much rather be a little short than too long. Just my opinion.
 
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