Joe's referring to PAT trap skeet traps. Brian the MEC machine was new last year having purchased APEX traps. They are well made from a company that stands behind their product. Parts are reasonable. Like the aluminium construction and the motor tucked up underneath the machine away from the grit. Should also consider Lincoln's new skeet machine as well. I have rebuilt Westerns converted to hold 500 clays if interested. Call me if you'd like pricing on all the above.