[loop02]

Here you go Randy...

 

[W.R.Buchanan]

Loop: where did it go?

Randy

 

[loop02]

about time

 

[loop02]

 

[Brian in Oregon]

You should get an end-on shot of the barrel breech, so he can see how the lever release is set up. It's a pretty clever design.

 

[loop02]

Four minutes per upload, best I can do now.

 

[loop02]

Push down on that taper piece on the magazine tube, Then pull it out. It does not have interrupted threads, like I recalled The barrel unscrews

I am going to bed, have you learned anything yet, Randy?

 

[W.R.Buchanan]

We're getting there. It is definately an 1893 and it is in really good shape. Good candidate for a Turnbull Restoration. It would look like the one in the pic above when done.

These are really good pics and I am printing them out as we go.

How about a couple more pics of the barrel section from the opposite side than shown, IE flip it over. And a pic strait on at the barrel section with the takedown lever open. This is where we need to see.

Questions: The big mystery here is how the takedown lever actually works? Does the takedown lever have threads in it's pivot around the barrel or is it a wedge? Can you show the wedge portion of that lever if it works like that with a pic showing the edge of the lever? This would show the taper on the wedge?

I see the barrel screws into the receiver until it hits the stop on the receiver face. Then you insert the mag tube at which point everything is lined up. And then you close the takedown lever, and the gun is ready. If this is the correct method of operation?

Thanks so much so far. I don't expect you to waste a bunch of your time while at your Moms but if you could take a bunch of pics and save them on the camera and maybe email them to me when you get home, it would save you a bunch of time. That way they will down load faster. Take a bunch pics from every angle, we can always sort thru them later. Barrel face and receiver face, and maybe a couple more pics of the other side of the mag tube latch.

Thanks so much Randy

 

[loop02]

That is exactly how it appears to work. I am going to take it home with me, because I forgot the calipers

 

[loop02]

 

[W.R.Buchanan]

Keith: that gun is in nice shape. Well taken care of for a gun over 100 years old. The entire receiver was originally color case hardended. You can see that on the face of the barrel group.

The big question is: Does the take down lever thread onto the barrel threads? If this is the case then it is a jamb nut, and takes up the slack like a jamb nut would. I am thinking this is NOT the case as I see the screw head that fits into the little recess in the takedown lever face. This leads me to believe,,,,

That the lever must be a wedge of some type. In the "end on" photo of the barrel group is appears there may be a circular raised portion on the takedown lever just around the barrel threads. Is there an angled section or ramp of some type in that area that would act as a wedge to take up the slack when the lever was pushed home?

If this was the case then various thicknesses shims could be placed under the takedown lever to adjust the fit. Something I think is alomst a necessity for any take down design. The more they are used the looser they get. You have to be able to compensate for this without having to make all new parts for the gun. Shims would work and be simple too.

Randy

 

[loop02]

That thing is pretty good shape for a 120 year old hunting gun.There is actually a little case coloring left on the receiver. On the end of the barrel it says pat.1894. You can see it in one photo. It appears that the barrel lock mechanism is a cam type set up that wedges against the barrel, like a jam nut arrangement. There is a shoulder that sticks up that barrel assembly, the barrel screws up against the lug, and the lever cams it tight. I would say.

 

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kieth: Now the only thing left is to figure out "how" it cams the slack out.

There must be a ramp or a wedge shape somewhere either on the front face of the lever or behind it. One way or another it has got to move towards the receiver when the lever is moved.

The reason I think the lever is not threaded onto the barrel is because of that limiting screw. I bet if you removed that screw that the lever would slide right off the barrel stub. Don't try to remove it unless you have a gunsmith screwdriver set with a bit that fits the screw perfectly. It would be a shame to goon the screw, I'd have to make you a new one from scratch.

If it was threaded it couldn't unscrew because of the way it is inlayed into the take up block.

We're getting close here.

Randy

 

[loop02]

I think it cams against the barrel from the side. The notch in the barrel assembly goes against the tang that sticks out of the receiver. There does not seem to be any taper or wedge to the lever

 

[loop02]

I was looking at that gun again, Randy, and when you close the locking lever, the lever cams back against the receiver about .015" or so. There is a ramp under the lever on the barrel stub block, or a ramp on the lever that cams the lever tight to the receiver, when you close it. Or a ramp on both the closing lever and the barrel stub. I didn't try to take it apart, but that screw retains the lever, with a shoulder under the screw head.

 

[W.R.Buchanan]

Now we're getting somewhere. This finally makes sense.

When you push the lever into the closed position, there is a circular ramp underneath the lever that pushes the lever towards the receiver taking up all slack in the threads?

This little ramp is circular and is the portion of the lever that is directly around the barrel threads maybe 1/8" wide all the way around. The ramped portion is between the moving lever and the block that is attached to the barrel?

Does this sound right?

Next we have to figure out if there is any "adjustment" that can be used to compensate for wear in the system?

It seems logical that the Marlin system would have to compete with the Winchester rifle system and thus would incorporate some kind of adjustment. Typically the guns that had this takedown feature were hi end guns, and would compete directly with Winchester guns in the same class.

I looked at a Winchester Model 12 Trap gun yesterday and the adjustment system was very clever, but not adaptable to a rifle due to the pressure that must be contained.

Jim West of Wild West guns who does a take down conversion to current Marlin guns has a non adjustable setup and tried to tell me that the gun he was showing me had been together and apart 500 times and was still tight. What he didn't tell me is that the gun had not been shot but a few times. Just taking apart and putting together would not wear the joint out. But shooting hi pressure rounds (this was a hotrod .45-70) damn sure would have an effect. Thus we need to have adjustment.

My .44 mag carbine will get the hell shot out of it with everything from plinking loads to 300+ gr, cast bullet loads at nearly 1800 FPS. These loads are comparable to Medium Heavy.45-70 loads in pressure and bolt thrust.(pushing 40,000psi) They will have a hammering effect on the barrel threads.

Randy