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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am preparing to start loading my first batch of shells and am interested in hearing people's experiences with either or Winchester's Low Recoil/Low Noise AA's or reloads with SUB 1145 FPS velocities.

I have read that loads between 1150 and 1200 FPS pattern the best, and I've also read many caution against high velocity loads - mainly for two reasons:
1. The increased velocities result in greater shot deformation. This results in more flyers and less effective patterns.
2. The high velocity shot loses speed faster. This means that while the increased speed is noticeable at short distances the returns are quickly diminished at distances beyond 30 yards.

While I have looked up ballistic tables to confirm that indeed loads all the way down to 1145 FPS still maintain plenty of velocity and energy to break targets at 30+ yards, I have not been able to find any numbers on shells below 1145 FPS. I know that the Low Recoil/Noise AA's are loaded all the way down to 980 FPS, and I know many people load slower shells to reduce recoil.

Ultimately I'd like to know if people have seen reduced performance when shooting these slower shells in trap, skeet, or sporting clays. I'm also curious if someone has patterned these slower shells to see if they are better or worse than traditional 1200 FPS shells.

Thanks for any input - I'm just trying to figure out what I want to load as I'm sensitive to recoil but don't want to give up a lot of performance as I'm not a very good shot.
 

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The winchester 980s are junk, pressure is too low and they are horribly inconsistent with a off-sounding shells being the majority. My guess is Winchester doesn't inventory a powder fast enough to go that low on velocity and maintain pressure.

I load 1oz @ 1125fps w/ Alliant Extra-Lite and it works great.
 

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Shot a bunch of the 980's in the cold this weekend. We had a case given to us by another member. We each grabbed a few boxes and headed to the 5-stand/wobble trap area. While they were certainly quiet - they broke targets off the wobble just fine as well as a number of 40+ yard quartering birds from the 5-stand. had someone ask about the off-sounding reports - that was because I had a pocket full of them mixed with 1-oz 1210 R10's. Like the herters low-recoil - I saw no difference in the breaks and I like the reduced recoil. I will reload to 1100 or lower with extralite.
 

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While I have looked up ballistic tables to confirm that indeed loads all the way down to 1145 FPS still maintain plenty of velocity and energy to break targets at 30+ yards, I have not been able to find any numbers on shells below 1145 FPS
1 1/8th oz 1145 fps loads have been a regular trap load forever. Your statement above makes that load sound like a really low speed borderline load when in reality it is a standard 16 yard load and has been for ages. It smokes targets at most any range you want to shoot them at. That is a standard AA, Remington, Federal, trap load speed. I just bought a bunch of Winchester trap loads tonight that were 1 1/8th oz 1145fps. For 16 yard on up with 8's and switching to 7 1/2's on longer handicap yardage. I am not criticizing you just commenting that the tables you are using seem to portray an 1145 fps load as kind of anemic.

I shot the Winchester AA low recoil and noise loads for cowboy action. Worked great for knockdown metal targets. For trap shooting. Nah! Go with a faster 1oz load if recoil is your concern.
 

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Cyanzer----Since your a new shooter, and most new shooters have a hard time giving up a 1/8 oz of shot, because they figure they will just miss to many targets. Try loading some 1 1/8 oz loads @ 1100 fps for singles, and then load up some 1150 fps loads for handicap.Its OK to speed up 50 fps when you move back (handicap shooting) to keep the time you pull the trigger until the time the target breaks the same. Its a mental thing more than anything. Federal even sells a factory 1 1/8 load loaded at 1100 fps!!! and they also have 1145 fps load as well. So you can use factory shells and do this without reloading if you like to buy factory loads. There is more than enough energy to break any target with these speeds. Since you are a new shooter and learning the proper sight picture there is nothing to throw you off. The difference in lead for a 50 fps load on a wide angle trap target is about l 1/4 inches at best. Its just a mental thing, just like using a one oz. load instead of a 1 1/8 oz. load. You will miss more targets if your recoil is to high for you. A hard hitting gun will keep your head off the stock much more often then with a light load. This will cause you to miss more targets than the missing 1/8 oz. or shot in your load. So stop thinking and just shoot!!! Load as light as you can without it messing with your head. break em all Jeff
 

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Don't over-think this thing.

I shoot 1 oz. reloads at 1235 fps. with reclaimed, #8's or #71/2 shot, depending on distance and target presentation. Been using this load for years and shoot all types of clay target sports, and this load will do it all.

K.I.S.S. principle....Keep it simple, stupid.
 

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If you want to know how much you jerk or flinch when you shoot, try some of the Winchester 980's. It's pretty funny.
 

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I have a friend who shot Win 980s and he became a 25 yard handicap shooter with them.

As far as retained energy goes, here is data form Shotgun Ballistics for Windows. #8 launched at 1000fps retains 0.51 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards, 1100 is 0.58 and 1150 is 0.61. So you see that even the slowest shell has enough retained energy to break a target out beyond normal trap ranges. If you don't think so, use 7.5s. The corresponding numbers for them are 0.65, 0.73 and 0.77.

BTW, the notion that fast shells pattern poorly is a myth. If you are using good, round, hard shot your patterns will be the same. If you don't believe that, buy a box of STS Light Target (1145fps) and a box of STS Nitro 27 (1235fps) and pattern them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ZZT, thanks for the information. It's pretty neat to see the differing opinions - some saying the Win 980's are garbage and you saying your friend shot them from the 25. I'm wondering if you have an opinion on whether Eagle Magnum Shot would fall into the category of, "good, round, hard shot".
 

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A total recoil-pansy here... I load 7/8 shot over about 16.5 grns of Promo.

This approximates the AA Feathers (runs just over 1,000 fps). I found if I went lower than that I would get 'bloopers' in cold weather.

I've never felt under shelled when shooting. They even work back to ~ 24/25 yards.

--

Here are two recipes that claim to reproduce the Feather load - I do not have verification for either, so use with caution.

Winchester 12-ga. 2 3/4" AA hull (old style)
Winchester 209 primer, Winchester WAA12L (gray) wad
14.2 grains Alliant American Select
26 grams (401 grains) of hard shot

Winchester AA hull
26 grams of lead shot (about 15/16 ounces)
12 grains of WAA Lite Powder
Win. 209 Primer
WAA12SL Wad
 

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Did not care for the 980's. I like anything in the 1150 range. Good for all trap and sporting targets. My latest factor favorite is the 1165 Fiochi 1 1/8.
 

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C, When I tried it, it was junk. The only good shot out there is West Coast Magnum, Remington Magnum and Lawrence Magnum. I haven't been able to get Remington shot for years. I've used West Coast Magnum for years.
 

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Another way to keep this simple, but very effective is to shoot 2 3/4 loads for singles and handicap. Will work great from any yardage.
 

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I'm wondering if you have an opinion on whether Eagle Magnum Shot would fall into the category of, "good, round, hard shot".
No its not hard, its pretty soft!!! There is a list on this website listing the hardness of most of the common factory shells and the most common bags of shot sold. Eagle Brand was on the bottom of the list of bagged shot sold. Remington Gun clubs were only slightly better, than the worst shell listed. That was the Herter's shells sold at Cabela's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Pull & Mark, I've seen that chart and have referenced it often. However, there doesn't seem to be a consensus, even on this web-site, regarding the hardness of Eagle shot. I've read this thread several times today and I'm not sure what to think at this point.
Ever try EAGLE SHOT ??
 
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