My son is going to start shooting doubles, I am wondering what everyone uses for the first shot and second shot. Is the first supposed to be light 7/8 or 1 oz? The second a handicap or just a regular 1145 1 1/8 singles round. Thanks in advance for the help.
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1oz #8 @ 1180fps/1 1/8oz #8 @ 1200fps, choked .020"/.030", STS (green)/Nitro (gold), easy to keep apart as they're different colored hulls. These are the same two loads as my singles/handicap loads so makes it simple, I only have to haul along two different loads when I go shooting.
John C. Saubak
John C. Saubak
I use 1oz #8 @1200fps for both shots, because that is what I load for singles.
My barrels are .019" and .032". My scores are the same using 7/8, 1 or 1 1/8oz. The only differences are the cost, amount of recoil and the breaks. Using 7/8oz the second bird breaks into a dozen or more pieces. With 1 oz about 2 dozen. With 1 1/8 oz smoke. Who cares, they all count as dead.
So I keep it simple. I just use my singles load for both shots.
My barrels are .019" and .032". My scores are the same using 7/8, 1 or 1 1/8oz. The only differences are the cost, amount of recoil and the breaks. Using 7/8oz the second bird breaks into a dozen or more pieces. With 1 oz about 2 dozen. With 1 1/8 oz smoke. Who cares, they all count as dead.
So I keep it simple. I just use my singles load for both shots.
Different loads because the first target is up close and the second target is far away. Also it is easier to stay on the gun using 1 oz loads. Makes sense to me. 1 oz of 9s for the first shot with a .008 choke, and 1 1/8 oz of 8s or 7 1/2s with a .023 choke for the second target. HMB
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Bryan,
WHY? I can only explain why I use two different loads. For the second shot if I'm a little slow that extra 1/8oz of shot might come in handy, OTOH it's NEVER nessesary for the first shot so why take the extra recoil? At least that's my theory. How important is that? Well, when my STS hull supply is getting old and cracked and I need some new green hulls I go to WalMart and buy 1 1/8oz "lights" and empty 'em shooting doubles, same load/both shots.
FWIW,
John C. Saubak, B 23.5 B
WHY? I can only explain why I use two different loads. For the second shot if I'm a little slow that extra 1/8oz of shot might come in handy, OTOH it's NEVER nessesary for the first shot so why take the extra recoil? At least that's my theory. How important is that? Well, when my STS hull supply is getting old and cracked and I need some new green hulls I go to WalMart and buy 1 1/8oz "lights" and empty 'em shooting doubles, same load/both shots.
FWIW,
John C. Saubak, B 23.5 B
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Lots of folks use a light shell for the first shot and a heavy shell for the second.
Lot's of reasons why as well.
Lets look at them....
First theory- You know where the first target will be so killing it with any load should be a breeze! so giys will use anything from 7/8 oz of #9 or 8 1/2 shot to a full one ounce load of #9, #8 or 8 1/2 size shot. Pretty valid theory.
Second theory- You know where the first bird will be so why not shoot a reduced velocity shell in order to have less recoil which in theory should help your recovery time and get you to the next target quicker. This is also a good theory. So these guys will shoot 1120 to 1145 fps 1 1/8 oz of 8's or 8 1/2's for the first shot.
Third theory... Used by many who are not the fastest shots in the world( I include myself in this group) A 1 ounce load for the first shot and a fast 1 1/8 shell for the second with either 8's or 7 1/2's. Just because you know where the target is on the first shot doesn't mean you are the fastest shot in the West! We each have the reflexes we are born with and have to work with what we got! Depending on how recoil effects us will also aefect our choice in shells.
If I was able to stand recoil without lifting my head I would shoot a fast 1oz load for teh first shot and a faster 1 1/8 load for the second or maybe two handicap type shells!
The 4th theory is held by the what I call the no bullshit / you won't get into my head with all this non-sense folks.
These guys know that this is all a bunch of bullshit and if you pattern your gun you will see that at the range that the average shooter shoots doubles, the load should not make any diffrence. They shoot 1 ounce of 8's or 1 1/8 ounce of 8's or whatever they shoot for singles for both shots.
Thes guys do as good or better then everybody else and can't undestand why everybody makes such a big deal out of a non-issue.
I am not one of those guys but I admire them!
Then there is a whole other issue of chokes! Many of the no bullshit guys shoot autoloaders with one choke and some of these crazy fools use a full choke! not only that, they do well with the full choke! The least crazy of those crazy guys will swap out to a modified choke if they have a choke tubed gun. Again.. They score just as well as the rest of us.
Daro Handy is a good doubles shooter but Kay Ohye he is not.
Daro shoots a full choke with 1oz of 8 1/2's for both shots. Daro is very recoil sensative and does it for this reason as well as the fact the fact that he is very quick. Daro's average has fallen off is recent years do to his health and guns that kick to hard ( Last I saw Daro he was back to the 1100 and had given up on the Perazzi as no matter what he did it kicked too much) I suspect he is now shooting 98's and 99's and 97's with the odd 100 thrown in.
Kay Ohye shoots 1 1/8 of #8 Remington STS 1145 lights. These he was shooting in both barrels. The K-80 was choked tight and tighter. The targets were two black balls in the sky which seemed about equal to each other in the sky as to distance and at just about the point in the sky where my slow reflexes has just about had a good look at them!
Why would Kay Ohye use so much choke and so much shell to shoot so close?
Why does kay have one of the highest doubles averages of any shooter? Why does Kay win many major doubles events?
Because he is good, and uses the same equipment all the time and it is good equipment and always performs the same way.
I suspect that Kay or Daro would beat most of use with a 20 ga skeet gun. They would focus on the job at hand and not be worrying about the gun or the shells.
That said...
This is my ultimate doubles gun...
First I would have a Anton stock put on a Remington 3200 with 30 inch barrels. First shot ( lower barrel) I would have Briley tube it with a full length 28ga . I would shoot 3/4oz of 9's in the 28ga barrel with a ligh modified choke. There would be just about zero recoil! I would only need 13 grains of powder to get a fast 1200 fps load.
The second barrel would be the factory full choke and I would have it Magna-ported by Magna-port.
I would shoot a 1200fps load of 8's.
I would still shoot in the mid 80's to low 90's but it would be fun.
Jeff
Lot's of reasons why as well.
Lets look at them....
First theory- You know where the first target will be so killing it with any load should be a breeze! so giys will use anything from 7/8 oz of #9 or 8 1/2 shot to a full one ounce load of #9, #8 or 8 1/2 size shot. Pretty valid theory.
Second theory- You know where the first bird will be so why not shoot a reduced velocity shell in order to have less recoil which in theory should help your recovery time and get you to the next target quicker. This is also a good theory. So these guys will shoot 1120 to 1145 fps 1 1/8 oz of 8's or 8 1/2's for the first shot.
Third theory... Used by many who are not the fastest shots in the world( I include myself in this group) A 1 ounce load for the first shot and a fast 1 1/8 shell for the second with either 8's or 7 1/2's. Just because you know where the target is on the first shot doesn't mean you are the fastest shot in the West! We each have the reflexes we are born with and have to work with what we got! Depending on how recoil effects us will also aefect our choice in shells.
If I was able to stand recoil without lifting my head I would shoot a fast 1oz load for teh first shot and a faster 1 1/8 load for the second or maybe two handicap type shells!
The 4th theory is held by the what I call the no bullshit / you won't get into my head with all this non-sense folks.
These guys know that this is all a bunch of bullshit and if you pattern your gun you will see that at the range that the average shooter shoots doubles, the load should not make any diffrence. They shoot 1 ounce of 8's or 1 1/8 ounce of 8's or whatever they shoot for singles for both shots.
Thes guys do as good or better then everybody else and can't undestand why everybody makes such a big deal out of a non-issue.
I am not one of those guys but I admire them!
Then there is a whole other issue of chokes! Many of the no bullshit guys shoot autoloaders with one choke and some of these crazy fools use a full choke! not only that, they do well with the full choke! The least crazy of those crazy guys will swap out to a modified choke if they have a choke tubed gun. Again.. They score just as well as the rest of us.
Daro Handy is a good doubles shooter but Kay Ohye he is not.
Daro shoots a full choke with 1oz of 8 1/2's for both shots. Daro is very recoil sensative and does it for this reason as well as the fact the fact that he is very quick. Daro's average has fallen off is recent years do to his health and guns that kick to hard ( Last I saw Daro he was back to the 1100 and had given up on the Perazzi as no matter what he did it kicked too much) I suspect he is now shooting 98's and 99's and 97's with the odd 100 thrown in.
Kay Ohye shoots 1 1/8 of #8 Remington STS 1145 lights. These he was shooting in both barrels. The K-80 was choked tight and tighter. The targets were two black balls in the sky which seemed about equal to each other in the sky as to distance and at just about the point in the sky where my slow reflexes has just about had a good look at them!
Why would Kay Ohye use so much choke and so much shell to shoot so close?
Why does kay have one of the highest doubles averages of any shooter? Why does Kay win many major doubles events?
Because he is good, and uses the same equipment all the time and it is good equipment and always performs the same way.
I suspect that Kay or Daro would beat most of use with a 20 ga skeet gun. They would focus on the job at hand and not be worrying about the gun or the shells.
That said...
This is my ultimate doubles gun...
First I would have a Anton stock put on a Remington 3200 with 30 inch barrels. First shot ( lower barrel) I would have Briley tube it with a full length 28ga . I would shoot 3/4oz of 9's in the 28ga barrel with a ligh modified choke. There would be just about zero recoil! I would only need 13 grains of powder to get a fast 1200 fps load.
The second barrel would be the factory full choke and I would have it Magna-ported by Magna-port.
I would shoot a 1200fps load of 8's.
I would still shoot in the mid 80's to low 90's but it would be fun.
Jeff
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Often it's the third event of the day, and you'll have already shot 200 targets and the recoil can start to take it's toll. A 1oz load of #8s, will easliy break the first target, so why not give yourself the benefit of less recoil? It will also help you stay in the gun.
.010 - .015 on the first shot is adequate. .022 - .030 on the second depending on your speed.
.010 - .015 on the first shot is adequate. .022 - .030 on the second depending on your speed.
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I shoot PITA and they have no rule against it Wolfram. That said, you could shoot 3/4 oz loads in a 12ga for the first shot just as easily. Jeff
Thanks for the suggestions guys. My thought on the light first laod was that maybe it wouldn't jar the gun around as much and make it easier to shoot the second one. I think I am going to start him off with all singles loads and see what happens.
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