[southpark]

Well, it seems like if NO ONE used their real name then it would be a lot harder to slander one another wouldn't it? I mean, is it really going to ruin anyone's reputation if this makes it into the newspaper: "Arf327 called slack-jawed hillbilly on trapshooters.com!"

I can just see folks sitting around the watercooler at a swank New York City office saying "gee, I was ready to have Arf327 be the contractor for my new house in the Hamptons, but not since I've learned he's a slack-jawed hillbilly."

So Gene, do us all a favour and start a campaign to force folks here to use anonymous names only.

Furthermore, wasn't there a long and contentious thread here recently where it turns out the people using their real names kept telling lies and slandering others, while the people using phoney names were telling the truth?

So your "solution" would guarantee we have more trapshooters identifying to the world not only that they lie and slander but their real names? I don't think that accomplishes anything. If you never realized posters here say plenty of stupid and untrue things even when using their real name you haven't been paying attention and may not be a good candidate to head this crusade.

Finally, most major employers do an internet search on prospective employees these days. Maybe not everyone is willing to jeopardize their families livelihood by telling a prospective employeer their political beliefs and that they love to play with guns. It seems to me that choice should be left to the individual.

Try judging a post on its merits. If a post you don't like is written by someone named "luckyshot" or "southpark", it should be easy to laugh it off -- who are these jokers after all. If, on the other hand, some guy named "Jacob R. Smith, Providence R.I., ATA No. 123456, says something people don't like you've now created a situation that could lead to violence or asinine complaints to the ATA.

I think that has been done before. A rash of complaints like is something that could really turn into lawsuits over reputations being slandard or libled. I wonder how long David is going to want to keep this site going when that happens.

Gene, take a lesson I learned years ago from Uncle Remus and learn to ignore troll posts by anonymous posters and restrain yourself from hitting the ********.

 

[southpark]

Gene, I'm putting you down as one of the first to actually appreciate my wit. Thank you. It pleases me more than I can express.

In the continued spirit of being constructive, here's a few things to try. Please note that whining to a moderator or David is really never necessary. If we play with guns, we should be able to be grown ups here.

1. Post a message at the top of the board to not respond to inflamitory troll posts as the only reason they are made is certain people get off on it because it makes them feel like they have an impact on people and the world. Ignoring them takes the wind out of their sails and removes their motivation to post. Responding just encourages them and when we respond, even to tell them to shut up, we perpetuate it and have no one but our selves to blame.

2. If someone you know violates rule one above, email them privately and tell them to stop feeding the trolls. Arguing with them is hitting the ******** (right Gene, nothing racist at all, just a message about fights you can't win and the harder you struggle the worse it gets). Yelling at your friends in the troll post to stop feeding the trolls just, guess what, feeds the troll.

3. If someone says something that isn't true or defames anyone, immediately post how you don't think that sort of thing is the behaviour of a gentleman or lady and it has no place here. If the person keeps behaving badly, follow rule one. Don't get in a fight with someone who should be ignored.

4. If a regular forum member (not a troll) says "that southpark is a jerk", try just posting something like "Hey, I know southpark, and he's not a jerk at all. Would you be able to back that up if you were to say that to his face? What happened to make you think that?" Often people just hear things from other folks who are disgruntled and keep going on and on perpetuating the insults. If this doesn't work, follow rule one and just ignore them.

5. If someone like Grammie, for example, starts getting slammed by everyone, like he always does, take a moment to read what he has to say. If you think people are saying things like "that southpark is a jerk, his points should be ignored", consider taking a moment to say "well, that may be true, but I think his point makes sense this time." It sets a good example for people to judge things by the merits here. The name attached to a post, or abscence of a name, really doesn't have a bearing on the merit of the individual post. Even chronic liars tell the truth once in a while. Folks do okay here building or destroying their own reputations and probably don't need much help from the rest of us.

6. Some folks have legitimate reasons to hide their identity. Plus, email like yahoo allows fake names at that end anyway. Requiring non-anonymous emails only like your job may provide isn't really fair to our retired shooters and others for whom a free account is their only option. Also, posting email addresses only guarantees a data mining spider is going to nick your email addy and start spamming your email account.

However, requiring email confirmation, even to a fake name account you set up on hotmail, is a pain in the rear and may go a long way to curb some of the casual jerks. I support this requirement. Plus, if they get out of hand they can be banned and forced to go through the process of setting up another fake email account before they can post again here (and set up another fake account here). This pain in the backside, coupled with rule one above, is going to make it much too much trouble for zero fame and attention for them to bother. If they keep getting attention, public reprimands, etc., I'm sure they are not going to stop because they love the attention.

Finally, please don't go crying to David or a moderator to stop certain opinions you don't like. I freak out and am extremely offended when people say something stupid or that is factually incorrect. Do I have the right to insist all stupid posts be deleted because I'm offended? I'm being serious. I'm an extremely intelligent over-educated guy. You may have no idea how offensive some of the drivel I read can be to a person like me. That doesn't mean I have the right to get insipid, foolish, or downright stupid posts or posters removed.

Similarly, don't assume you are the final arbiter of what is offensive. Other people may not be bothered at all and may be equally offended that you are such a thin-skinned crybaby and sissy that they want your post deleted. Is that fair? Who makes those calls? Is that really how the site should be run? Really, the easiest answer is to simply stop reading the threads and or posts that may bother you and ignore them.

Get some self control. When I hear people freaking out over a television show I'm greatly disturbed they put so much energy into a campaign to get the show off the air but are too lazy to change the channel. Sometimes we really only have our selves to blame.

 

[southpark]

In response to LCC above, you make some compelling points. Still, consider this: You can't have your kids shoot trap or use the bathroom without using the clubhouse. It is public.

This site however, is not public. The fact that it is a privately owned site is why, as you point out, David is able to delete any thread or picture he wants.

Moreover, a computer and web connection are required to come here. If your kid can get here, he or she can get to dirtynakedanalpornsluts.com just as easily. If you (I mean parents in general, not you personally) are letting your kid have free access to the internet maybe you're not doing so hot of a job parenting.

On the other hand, maybe you figure your kid is adult enough to handle a loaded twelve gauge shotgun so must be old enough to use the internet unsupervised. You may be right, but that means they are old and responsible enough to ignore threads and posts that don't comport with your instructions on what is or is not appropriate.

Maybe I need to add this to my list above:

7. If you are going to post something not strictly trap related identify it in the topic line and include "OT" for off topic.

8. If you are the sensitive type, or have kids using this site, DON'T EVER OPEN OFF TOPIC POSTS.

Frankly, I'm not sure what any parent would think is kid oriented about any of the threads here.

Regardless, LLC, if you stumble upon a post you don't like I'm sure it readily becomes clear to you. Here's my plan for you in that situation: STOP READING AND CLOSE THE THREAD!

You must be like those people who slow down on the freeway when they drive by an accident hoping they'll see a dead body. What is wrong with you?

I find it very hard to believe an offensive post ever ambushed you here. What, you thought when you opened the thread labled "Funny Pic" you thought you were going to see a scematic of a K-80? Poppycock! Or a post started out with "a Catholic priest, a rabbi, and a Lutheran minister, were fishing one day..." and you were shocked when you got to the punch line? W*** the F*** were you thinking? Stop reading. Any second grader would know something potentially offensive was coming.

Again, LCC, you are making your lack of sense and self control everyone else's problem.

 

[southpark]

Chuck, you got me thinking -- remember when there were only a couple of hundred thousand hits, and then the millionth was a big milestone? Now, over five million...wow!

Oh, by the way

I HATE ALL EMPLOYEES OF DAIMLER-CHRYSLER 'CAUSE THEY'RE ALL GOOFBALLS!

Okay okay, just kidding.

 

[southpark]

Wrestling with a pig -- exactly Darwin!!!! That's why I used the ******** analogy, did you read that? Analogy -- understand? I was not saying you like to look at dead people, but that you are similar to those people. I'm sure if you asked them do you get off on looking at dead people they would tell you no way. Still, they look. Similarly -- analogously -- you keep looking at posts you don't like.

The point is, many people think fat and skinny people are funny! I agree with you COMPLETELY that they are jerks and insensitive. Still, they are laughing.

Do you understand yet?

We all don't have the same expectations of what is offensive or what isn't.

The Motion Picture Association of America recently gave a kids' movie a PG rating because they felt the movies emphasis on believing in God and being a good person by following the Ten Commandments was very controversial and parents should be warned as some may find it offensive.

I watch "Curb Your Enthusiasm" where they swear a lot and make fun of certain Jewish stereotypes. Am I offended? No. Is my Jewish wife offended? No. Is the Jewish guy who writes and stars in the show offended? Are they people who would be offended? Of course! What about them? Should we ban the show? Who makes that call? You Darwin?

"Will and Grace" has a guy on the show who sticks a macaw in a teeny tiny cage that it barely fits in to. I own macaws and I don't find it funny at all and am deeply offended that the show portrays what I consider to be abuse of a very intelligent animal. I'm being totally serious. Guess what? Most folks laugh away! Should I be allowed to shut that show down or make them put the macaw in a bigger cage?

If you were only saying we should have a little restraint, I would agree with you completely. Also, if that is all you are saying you can stop arguing with me.

What I am saying is don't run to complain to a moderator about stuff you are offended like or there will be nothing on this board as we are all offended by different things.

If you think something is in poor taste politely say so. If you are ignored ignore them right back.

What is crazy is that it looks like you are saying you insist on being able to "open the threads I want and read them as I want" but you also seem to be insisting that the folks who post "funny" threads only post things you think are okay. I don't think it is reasonable for you to have it both ways.

Stick to neutral trap only threads or be prepared to take the good with the bad.

And to be clear, I'm not saying I like posts I consider offensive -- why on earth would I enjoy being offended? I'm just saying attaching names to the posts is going to be unenforceable and can be sidestepped, and even if it weren't, people are still going to be jerks.

Politicians say stupid offensive stuff all the time and not only do we know their real name, they are being videotaped when they say it -- BUT IT DOESN'T STOP THEM! We are kidding ourselves if we think it will help here.

Try telling the non-troll regular posters if you think they have been indecent or insensitive and if they are decent people they will voluntarily edit their posts. It works all the time if you have the gumption to call them on their BS.

For trolls who are purposely looking for trouble, simply understand it is a desperate cry for attention. Ignore them. Watch Cesar Milan do it. Don't let those dirty dogs become the center of your universe. Resist the urge to look at the bodies at the scene of an accident (remember the word of the day -- analogy).

 

[southpark]

You think this is bad; get me in person!

Chuck, we backed out of the AMG deal at the last minute. For similar money I got a Porsche Boxster and, you better not laugh, a VW PHAETON!

But we only use the sedan to take friends to the Opera and six days a year doesn't justify a car so we've put a deposit down on a new Porsche twin turbo, though the GT3 looks tempting too.

My wife says to get one and enjoy it now before I'm so old I'll look like a pervert trolling for college girls in my sports car. LOL!

 

[southpark]

Yeah Chuck, total thread hijack. Sure the Carrera GT is sweet. I'll pick one up just as soon as I fall asleep later tonight and start dreaming.

We looked at $3,000,000 homes here on Sunday. What a tough one. My wife wants something like that BAD. But that means no more toys, no RV to take to the Grand, no more fancy dinners, wine collecting, exotic pets, etc.

We sat down with the sales dude to get an idea of how much all this would be out of pocket and he figured $3,300 a month for various dues, fees, upkeep, utilities, etc., not including the freaking mortgage!

I feel like we've gotten a taste of the good life and are close enough to get some crazy ideas but the bottom line is certain toys are for the truly rich and, I'm sad to say, I am not.

Hey, did you see Nacho Libre? Cute and sweet. Here's a line said with more of a cuban accent than Mexican:

"Aren't you tired of getting dirt kicked in your face? Just once, wouldn't you like to get a taste of the good life. Just a taste."

And my father in law just got back from Israel. What a nightmare. I think the Israeli guv'ment is still saying pulling out of Gaza was a great idea; they have gone crazy and are suicidal now. I will spare the forum my solution.

 

[southpark]

"Hello group, my name is Tron. I've been troll free [snif] for 57 days. I still shake quite a bit, and the chills and sweats at night, but it's one day at a time..."

 

[southpark]

Okay, here's number 8:

8. Consider an improved search function for those having trouble finding trapshooting related topics.

P.S., Tron, I doubt you of all people were offended that I poked a little fun at your troll recovery success story.

And Jerber, that was pretty funny.

 

[southpark]

Oh God, if we're kindred spirits...gulp!

 

[southpark]

RecurvyArcher, the best part about your post is that I don't need to know your name to know you made a thoughtful, respectful post.

I did want to point out, however, that your mom may have been right all along, but I'll let it slide as I used to shoot a recurve bow too when I was younger.

 

[southpark]

I agree with 327. Except when what he says contradicts what I say. Then, obviously, he's wrong.

I agree with Brian in Oregon: I hate people who discriminate against "ovices" too! Some of my best friends are ovices.

 

[southpark]

Okay gang, I found a great guide to internet etiquette by Tom Andry which I'll post here and in its own thread:

How do I best express my views on the Internet?

There are specific rules regarding the Internet. OPRA knows almost none of them but he is pretty sure that if you have an opinion on something you should definitely find a forum that has little or nothing to do with the subject at hand and start posting away. There are quite a few techniques involved in a really well done argument. I’ll list a few here:

Providing Evidence – Googling is an important skill that shows your superior ability at wringing the Internet dry in an attempt to find as many sources of confirmation for your opinion as possible. The more obscure the better. Bonus points if you have to use a translation program to read it.

Brevity – Come on, you know it works. When people spend oodles of time debunking every misconception you have, coming back with a one word response is the ultimate. Especially if you draw it out like “twwwwwwwwwooooooooooooo……” Classic.

Clarity – Why use one word when you can use two? Why use one paragraph when you can use ten? If your uber-response is so long no one will read it, you win!

Making it Personal – One can never underestimate the power of belittling another. It may be useful to stir up debate by calling people cows or sheep or other barnyard animals. This stimulates the discussion by getting people personally involved and is generally considered good form. It is especially effective if you target something that is completely superfluous to the topic at hand. Grammar and spelling are obvious targets. Hanging prepositions are less obvious but show your superior intellect (not that the cretons will understand it). Ripping on someone’s avatar is always a good ploy, especially if they were fool enough to use a picture of their wife or child.

Taking the High Ground – Saying things like, “When you grow up…” or “Aren’t you still in diapers…” is always a good way to keep the discussion on track. People love to be reminded of that condescending Father/Uncle/Teacher. I know I do.

Graphics – Try to find/invent/makeup some sort of graph, chart, or pictorial representation of your argument. Make sure you label it clearly “What I believe” and “All that other crap that is wrong and only idiots would believe.” This definitely provides credence to your debating skills.

Logic Puzzles – Start as many sentences as possible saying what you will not do, then say “but” and do it anyways. For example, “I don’t want to say that you are a moron but you are a moron.” It confuses people because first they think you won’t say it, then you do, but you said you wouldn’t so you must not have… By the time they figure it out, you’ve already won the argument.

Inviting a Friend – If you’ve got a couple of brainwashed stooges that worship the self-righteous ground you walk on, have them sign up and support you. Better yet, invent one! If no one will talk to you because they just can’t get over how wrong they are, invent a couple of alternative identities and post away. Sure, it takes extra time but in the end, isn’t a virtual buddy better than no buddy?

Referencing – Scholastic journals and peer reviewed articles love to cite other people’s work. You should do the same. But, since you are the authoritative voice on pretty much everything, whom do you cite? Easy – yourself. Post something brilliant (that shouldn’t be too hard). Then when people refute it, refer back to it (preferably with links). Obviously, this is a good spot for a personal insult or a “but” statement as they must be dense if they can’t see the truth behind your half-baked theorems, convoluted logic, and pseudo-science.

Getting Management Involved – Nothing asserts your righteous Alpha-maleness than telling the management to go stuff themselves. Even better, berate them online, get banned, then demand to be unbanned with a formal apology. You can tell how often that works by the number of posts in the “Formal Apology” thread in the “I Don’t Give a Crap” forum.

Word to the wise – Rational arguments based in fact or (gasp!) common sense have NO PLACE on the Internet. Take those discussions elsewhere my friend. We’re not buying what you’re selling and we don’t take to your kind around here. If you want that, go make some real friends. Loser.