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Discussion Starter #1
Here is the scenario.

Trap shooter buys a entry-level trap gun, shoots it for a while and struggles. He then buys a few top of the line guns thinking they would do the trick. Now a custom made 20k trap gun is being built. Struggling with 13's and 15's for the past 2 years seems more than an ill fitting gun.

Nothing for nothing but don't you think lessons would be the better thing to do rather another new trap gun??? I don't want to give any advice unless it is asked but more than once Trap Lessons from a pro were brought up. Stance, hold, where he looks, coming out of the gun, stopping the swing, when he pulls the trigger, etc... Maybe these all can be attributed to an ill-fitting gun but most of us just think his answers to poor shooting are a few lessons from an instructor. It seems to fall on deaf ears and we are astonished about the amount of money being spent. We are talking around 30k in guns for this guy now and I really believe some lessons would have done the trick. You are talking to a guy who shoots a beat up BT99 but on a bad day I don't miss more than 3-4 birds a round so i am wacked out about 20k being spent.

Anyone else see this type of scenario as I have seen it more than once in my brief 3 years of Trap shooting?

There is something about a guy with a 20k trap gun that can't break more than 17 birds on a good day. I don't know if I should feel bad or not for the guy.

I think taking lessons first would have been the smart thing to do THEN go out and buy a custom gun. I think lessons after buying a new gun may change stance hold, mount that could cause a brand new gun not to fit?
 

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If I was starting out, I would spend about $1000 on a gun ( used BT99). And take the rest of my extra cash and spend it on birds, shells and lessons if need be. Has this guy patterned his shotgun? I have seen alot of guys that switch to a true trap gun and dont hit crap because they are so use to shooting flat shooting field guns and they are always shooting way over the birds. Not that I'm an expert or anything, but I have seen this alot.
 

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In my opinion he should do the following in order:
1)get a gun that CAN be fit
2)Pattern it
3)lesson.....with an open mind, have the fit checked
4)look at the bird, not the bead
I shoot in a league and have 40 shooters from my club on teams....I estimate that less than 10 have ever patterned their guns....
 

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If the guy has shot more than 1000 targets and is still shooting 15-17 it is not the gun fit. People can adjust to poor gun fit to that degree. He probably has a vision problem, coordination problem, some other physical problem or absolutely the worst technique available. He needs to see a QUALIFIED shooting instructor who can determine what it is. I can set my dog in the drivers seat of a Ferrari, he still ain't getting it out of the driveway.
 

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Gun Fit as we all know is very importain so he has spent the money on the gun now he needs lessons and then spend the time in the gun! he needs to shoot alot and then get more lessons, if you are willing to spend 30k on guns then travel to get shooting lessons from the Big Guy should not be a problem!
 

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My motto:

If you're shooting poorly, you NEED a new gun.

If you're shooting well, you DESERVE a new gun!
 

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A statement I'll never forget by Frank Little at my first trapshooting clinic, "The best trap gun ever made was the BT99 Old Style" He only went to the TMX because he could replace the triggers if something failed. The BT99 wasn't anything close to a high end gun. Get over the idea you will shoot an expensive gun better. Get professional instruction and do what the pro says. This isn't a complicated game, the answer is learning and doing the basics correctly.
 

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Hammer I really don't appreciate you telling my story on a public forum. ;)

This could have very well been me (although my scores weren't that low). Sometimes people have more money than sense regarding a topic. Well I went through several guns and finally have one I really like (wife bought it for me so I REALLY like it) and will be with Nora Ross this weekend.

Once he gets his gun, encourage him to get some lessons so he can REALLY show what that new gun can do. By encouraging and being positive he may give it a try instead of the old, "Man you need some shooting lessons". Hope this helps. Jim
 

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One thing you didn't mention is if he asked for advice. If he wants a new gun and can afford it what difference does it make. If he ask's for advice, lesson's would probly be money well spent. Don't assume, just because you think his scores are poor that he does as well.
 

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Definantly lessons...this is not a gun problem, but a major technique or mechanics issue...sounds like he has Marty Feldman eyes
 

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MrkSLC posted above "No brag; but I've never met a gun I couldn't shoot. It is not the gun; it is me, when I miss."

That description also fits me, but I have met some guns I wouldn't shoot and very many I could not shoot well.

Pat Ireland
 

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Mr Hammer ... have you thought about trying skeet? After 2 years and only having an average that low I can only suggest you think about trying skeet instead.

Seriously ... it aint the gun, it aint the ammo, it aint the range, it aint anything but the shooter. You got problems and they are big problems. Find an instructor and get some pointers from him/her and listen to what they have to say. Be forwarned though that your scores might actually go lower (if they can get lower than now) after you get lessons. Seriously ... they just might but they will rebound back and be far better than now. After lessons you will be thinking and changing things the instructor tells you and things will feel funny ... but averaging 15 must already feel funny after 2 years of shooting ... but until what he teaches you and those things begin to click then look at and before ya know it you will be averaging 18's than 19's and in a couple of years you'll be in the 20's for sure.
 

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I had a teenager at the club that couldn't break 15 to save his soul; his dad was ready to change guns (for the third time)--I checked him for eye dominance and sure enough he was a right handed shooter with left eye dominance. A little clear tape and he broke 20 the third round he shot with it on his glasses. Probably one of the first things an instructor should do when someone is having problems.
 

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I dont understand ... tape over your glasses? How is that going to help? Ya aint going to see the tape unless you shoot with your eyes open.
 

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I agree with MXshooter. Maybe he's more into buying guns that learning to shoot them. And that's OK with me. Lots of people are gun-acquirers, but not shooters. It appears that he has the money, so unless he asks for advice, I'd just let him do his thing. And since your lesson suggestions are falling on deaf ears, he's doing that already. Yeah it's sad if he's frustrated with his bad scores, but you can't fix a person what don't want fixin. Were he a friend, I'd try to buy him a beginners lesson or two with a coach who'd begin with basic gun fit & eye dominance. Since he isn't, I'd say forget it. Phil E
 

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take a clinic from one of the Big Dogs....they're all commented on here...they will tell you if your gun fits you or not..then listen up and get shooting!! (Britt Robinson is superb)
 
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