For 12 ga 1oz it's 1350fps and 1290fps for 1&1/8th oz.

Eric

 

1290 for 1 1/8 loads, 1325 for 1 oz. loads,and 1350 for 7/8 oz. loads.

D.P.Reynolds

 

Tom.... Without a doubt, shell speed is the most often ignored rule in trapshooting today. The rule is overlooked by most simply due to its ability to be enforced. There is no way to tell if a competitors shell is faster than is allowed without it being disassembled and every component weighed, which, in my 30 plus years of trapshooting, has never happened, that I'm aware of. With the different powders, ported barrels, etc. it is impossible to tell by the sound alone if the shell is legal or not. Personally, I don't care what shell my competitors use. They can use 11/4oz of 6's going 1400fps if they choose to. After 100 rounds or so, they can not stay in their guns due to the excessive recoil. I'm a big believer in the "shoot what you bring" theory. With all the controversy about the ATA doing its job, the handicap system, legal target flights, legal target speeds, etc., shell speed is one of those things the late Frank Little used to call trivial garbage. While I believe one can shoot a shell that is too slow to do the job adequately, I also believe there is a point where a shell that is too fast loses its effectivness and becomes detrimental to your scores. Shoot what you feel comfortable with and don't worry about it, no one else does... Just my observations..... Dan Thome (Trap2)

 

From the ATA rule book, ATA web site:<center>

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Keller

 

In my 37 yeas of Trap I've never seen anyone check the speed of a shell, anywhere. Has anyone ever seen the speed of the shell checked or even questioned, do to a complaint or suspected cheater?

 

With the diversity of all the powders on the market and shooters blending powders it is impossible to tell speed from weighing powder from dis-assembled shells. Powders like REDCO or PROCO which is Herco Blended with Red Dot and Promo, I do not mix powders but know quite a few who do.

I like 1200 fps shells in ATA Hdcp but am presently shooting up 5 cases of Top Guns 2 3/4 Dr5am 7.5s on first shot of buddy shoots.

I load Promo for ATA Targets almost exclusively.

Gary Bryant
Dr.longhshot

 

You can buy a Pro-Chrono chronograph for around $100, it wouldn't be a difficult rule to enforce.

 

Shotguns are one of the hardest things to chrono. Gases are comming out a head of the shot, and the first few pellets might not be a good result for the main shot charge. Then, even with shade screens on cheaper chronos, full sun, partial sun, shade can give all different readings.

If that isn't bad enough, you need to set up 8' away with a SKEET, or Cyl. choke to get the best readings. Whos got those chokes at an ATA event? An Oehler 35P is what I would use for shotguns.

Wayne

 

There would be arguments forever if the ATA began using chronographs such as Pro-Chrono. There are so many variables such as the distance from the muzzle, muzzle blast, etc., not to mention the difference between the chronographs used by the shell manufacturers that measure the main shot charge vs the chronographs available to handloaders that measure the first pellet across the screen.

 

What should be checked is shot weight and shot size. But that will never happen either. Could you imagine what would happen when factory ammo is found to be out of spec. HMB

 

They should have to be checked with commercial equipment certifications....

Otherwise, I've got an old ballistic pendulum and a Hollywood chronograph ....

 

Another one of the ATA stupid rules.

 

What is so stupid about it, RWT?

I don't see the problem. All the reloading manuals have loads that fit this criteria. And, some here complain about the 1250 fps loads, saying 1200 should be the max with 1 1/8 the max weight (and some want 1 oz).

Bob

 

Bob,

It is stupid because it is not being enforced. HMB

 

Thanks, HMB.

I did not know that no one ever enforced it. I haven't heard of anyone challenging a shooter based on his/her shells and I guess I never really cared.

Seems that the guys who win, at least where I've shot, seem to be using the same shells I do. They just seem to point their guns a little better than I point mine.

I'm really not sure if faster shells than 1250/Super Handicaps would make a difference or not. Seems you still have to have the gun pointed in the right place.

Bob

 

IMHO, we could take a hint from Olympic trap. They regulate the weight and size of shot but there is no speed limit. Very easy to enforce and they take a couple shells from your pocket before a round as evidence for later.

 

The ATA has to do it different from the rest of the world. HMB

 

When a rule is put in place as such it is a guideline for which the honest to follow. Cheaters will bend the rules regardless of verbage.

 

Welcome to LaLa Land. HMB

 

straightshooter1,

I think it is stupid because, like HMB said it is not enforced, and it is not enforced because it is unenforceable.

personally I don't care what anyone shoots but me, 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 8s for everything. If they are tough enough to take the pounding for 200-300 target let them shoot anything they want.
Robert

 

Nah, that's what SAAMI says... Winchester says their good stuff will hold much, much closer SD's.....


Your Ohler won't, it's not supposed too, it doesn't measure the same way the factory does...

 

Mac1, can you give me a link or article that Winchester says their shells are + or - 90 fps. of whats listed on the box.

BigM, you are right about the the Ohler not measuring the same fps. as factory chronos, but set up right, it can give you very accurate standard deviations. For example: 1145 fps Remington Gun Clubs can be 1120 to 1235. Where as my loads with Green Dot have a SD 8.9. Same day, same gun, same choke. Factory AA's and Nitro's are very consistent too. Never chronoed the Walmart stuff, maybe next weekend. Could they be worse than Gun Clubs?

Wayne

 

kinda funny watching the pendulum swing one way, this way, that way, etc....

everyone trying to get an edge to make up for poor shooting.

im old school. 3 dram 1200fps for everything. i figure it this way. if you cant handle full dram loads, you dont deserve to win, because the ability to deal with a full house load is/was suppose to be part of the game. its why they invented pads.

so for anyone who knows me, youll see me out there with my trusty M12 banging away with max dram, 1200fps, 7 1/2 shot, out a fixed full choke on everything.

the world may have changed, but i sure didnt. its much more fun this way...than changin something every minute of my life. retirees arent suppose to be doing that! lol.

========
btw, the walmart stuff is mostly 3 1/4dram 1oz or 3 dram 1 1/8. the brand x stuff seems hotter than gun clubs.

 

Years ago when black powder was used the standard was "Dram Equiv." 3 Drams" of Black Powder was said to push 1-1/8 of shot @ 1200FPS. When Smokless came into used that was called a "3 Dram load. SAAMI standards allowed for a variation of + 90 FPS. So the ATA Dropped th Dram Equiv.term (as well they should). Now 1-1/8 is allowed 1290 FPS----1 oz. 1325 FPS-----and 7/8 1350 FPS. It is sort of redundant because in all my nearly 40 years of registered trap shooting I only saw shells checked TWICE" and then only by shot size an weight! Today American Trap stands as "THE ONLY target displine that has a speed limit! There is none in skeet(dropped years ago)--none in Sporting, and none in both Interational Trap or Skeet. All "EXCEPT American Trap limit ONLY shot size and shot weight. The ATA is the LAST hold out! Far past time to bury the Dinosaur IMO!