I was at this shoot and the ATA should be ashamed of what they did to these two gentlemen. I will be sure to double check every aspect of my business before I run another ATA shoot. Terry Bilbey Redlands Shooting Park
Well folks, to save everyone having to hunt around for the info, we put up a private explanation page several weeks ago for our friends and supporters. In that there is interest here in what happened to the Las Vegas 1000 and to us, below is the link to that page. Reading it, keep in mind that to our knowledge no shoot participant complained about the conduct of the shoot, every shooter got all the services and benefits we promised, that every shooter got paid their winnings in a timely manner, all paperwork and fees were filed with the ATA in a timely manner and that there was no allegations of improper scoring or reporting.
While we won't be running ATA shoots anymore, we are directing our trapshooting energies in a more positive endeavor to make sure trap clubs can stay open. You can read about our ride on the ATA Railroad here: http://www.lasvegas1000.com/OrderOfService.aspx
You can read about Gary and me here: http://www.shot-stop.com/AboutUs.aspx
We want to thank the numerous people who wrote and called the ATA on our behalf. While it fell on deaf ears, we really appreciated your efforts.
Gary and I are by nature positive guys and we have put this behind us and intend to go shoot and have fun with good friends and that is what this sport should be about. We are entering an unprecedented period where our Second Amendment rights are going to be attacked at every level and we need to all pull together to see that our gun clubs prosper and we involve more people in our sport.
Jim and Gary ran a fine show. If we needed something it was taken care of. Was it windy? Yes it was for everyone. Meet fine people from Alaska, Hawaii, Maine, Florida, and states in between. I am against what the ATA has done to this shoot. The Las Vegas shoot directors were always forthcoming on what was going on.
Not only will I miss this event, so will my wife. This was an event that a significant other could attend with items for them to do. If you are a non shooter and trap shoot can be like watching paint dry.
Use to be proud to say I was an ATA member. After this I still belong because this is my sport. Just not proud or agree what has been done.
When things happen we ask questions of people who where there.
Wait a minute. Two guys were suspended from the ATA and banned from running a shoot for life because they didn't post scores correctly and didn't state in the program that $3 went to the ATA?? Even though they paid the correct fees to the ATA?
Am I the only one that sees this as a silly reason to even think about suspending someone? I am sure I don't have all of the facts, but certainly what is posted raises one's eyebrows.
I find it interesting that the organizers of the Las Vegas 1000 received a life time suspension for running events and a five (5) year suspension for shooting an ATA Event. It seems to me that the ATA does not equally apply its justice among its members. For example, during the same meeting, I found the following complaint for the ATA's Executive Committee Meeting dated August 6, 2012, from the ATA's Website:
"Complaint #12-04 – Filed against St. Charles Sportsman’s Club (#17-0185) by C. M. Rector (#17-49295). Mr. Rector alleged that St. Charles collected daily fees for three Registered League sessions, but did not report the scores or forward fees to ATA headquarters. Illinois Delegate Matteson’s investigation found that Mr. Rector’s claim was true, however two of the three leagues did not have the required minimum of three entrants, so these could not be registered. Further, it was found that St. Charles had not paid the requisite $25 registration fee to the ATA for any of the three league sessions. Delegate Matteson recommended that St. Charles be required to comply with the following conditions: 1. Submit proof to the ATA Executive Director that the members were refunded the ATA daily fees for the two league sessions that did not have the required number of entries. This proof shall be signed statements from the members.
2. Submit payment of the $25 league registration fee for the Spring 2011 session.
3. Submit payment of the $25 late payment fee for the tardy shoot report.
4. Submit payment of the ATA daily fees for the Spring 2011 session ($270).
Vice President Wagner concurred with Delegate Matteson’s recommendation and the
remaining Vice Presidents agreed. St. Charles was informed of the decision of the Executive Committee via Certified letter on July 16. No action taken at this time."
Something Smells Fishy HERE! I think we should be able to examine the findings that resulted in such a Discipline. I am hoping that they are published in the next executive committee meeting minutes. The above case seems to have ongoing issues and apparently, did not even send in the fees. Why wasn't the same actions given to the Organizers of the Las Vegas 1000?
RickN. What you read were all the allegations in the Complaint, no more, no less. We answered the allegations in writing in the time required. If there were any additional allegations that came to light during the investigation by the Delegate, the ATA Rules require we be given a chance to respond to those. We were not presented with any additional allegations so we can only assume that there weren't any. If anyone claims there are it means that the ATA broke its own Rules by not giving us a chance to respond. Remember, the Complaint was filed by a person who was never even at the Shoot.
Brett44. The ATA hasn't "explained" it to us yet either. We were only asked for some additional documentation supporting the payout list which was supplied during the investigation. It, of course, only confirmed that the payout list was both accurate and the payouts were sent out in a timely manner. We asked for a reconsideration by the EC at its December meeting but it took no further action letting the punishment stand.
Avaldes. Actually, the allegation was that we didn't post daily payout sheets. The scores were posted after each event. However, because the payouts were based on cumulative scores for the week, there were no daily payouts to post. Had the person making the complaint actually been at the shoot he would have understood that. So, as it stands, our suspensions are based on our failure to separately state that $3.00 was going to the ATA. Again, if there were any other allegations the ATA, by its own Rules, would have been required to give us the opportunity to answer them. If any one states that there were other allegations, they obviously are either ignorant or lying.
Jorge. The reason we weren't given the same opportunity as the St Charles shoot management is simply because we had nothing to correct. We sent in our scores and fees in a timely manner. All of our paperwork was in order. You think the difference is that the ATA didn't want to shutdown the St Charles shoots but wanted to shut down the Las Vegas 1000 and make sure that Gary and I never tried any other innovative formats to stimulate the slowly but resolutely dying ATA?
While I am not in possession of all the fact, including complaint 12-06, from what I have read, this is slightly overboard in terms of punishment. One has to wonder what is going on here we don't know about.
I was at the first shoot did not make the second one but not because i did not want to be there i have some very good friends that are long time trap shooters that live in Vegas and they told me the Nevada state delegate started the whole process maybe he did not like two Cal. boys coming to his state and holding a shoot without getting his blessing Its all bureaucratic BULLS*IT
It's absolutely sickening what the ATA and their thugs have done to these guys. I have been quite disturbed with their suspension even to the point that I have even given thought to stop shooting ATA. Even though I have only known Jim and Gary for about 5 years I do call both friends and will support them until hell freezes over. What really upsets me is the fact that the Nevada Delegate who filed the complaint was never at the shoot....so the question now comes who convinced the Nevada Delegate to file the complaint? To take this a step further why didn't the person(s) who went crying to the Delegate file the complaint themselves? Could it be "no guts" played a major role in this.
Another major problem I have with this b.s. suspension is how did the California Delegate who handled the "investigation" get involved and even recommend punishment? Wasn't the "crime" committed in Nevada? You mean to tell me there was no one in the NTA that could have investigated the complaint? Another question I would like answered is who assisted the California Delegate in his investigation and who determined the length of the suspension?
As you can tell I'm not a happy camper with the ATA in the way they have handled this complaint nor am I happy with our State Delegate as well. The 5 year suspension is highly excessive and it's sad that the ATA can be so blinded that they can't see the forest for the trees. It appears on the surface that if any club or member wants to host a shoot, make sure you post and collect the "daily fees" or face the possibility of receiving the death penalty. Sad but true.