I have been a student of Kay for the past few years. Kay teaches a system and it takes commitment on the shooter's part not only to learn the components, but to execute them. I don't know any instructor that has put more people on the the All American team than Kay.
There are some that don't warm to Kay's loving personality, but for me, I'm there to learn how to shoot correctly and know that his goal for every student is the same...to teach you to be a better shooter. I would highly recommend his classes.
I took a course from Kay about 20 years ago. As I recall, it was like working for a nasty boss. He didn't make the experience enjoyable. I was a fairly good shooter before I took the class. He makes you forget everthing you were doing, and rebuilds your style into his image. After the class, my scores went down. However, I remembered what he taught me, and now, 20 years later IMHO, I am probably a better shot than had I not taken the classes. Welderman
I took one of his classes about 3 or 4 years ago just before the southern grand. Was a 1 day course.
Biggest problem was the rain. Not real heavy, but overcast and enough to detract from making it enjoyable. Kay and Debbie were running it. Kay walked around like the Sensei in a Dojo. He sorta looked everybody over; the 'students' filed past him and he made some 'suggestions' (like said above, his 'suggestions' are more like 'do it this way you damn fool'). Debbie was polite and helpfull.
His classes are drill based - that is you practice 'this' move, then you practice 'this' move. Look here, shoot over there....etc. Lots of mechanics - little classroom or theory. He's say stuff like 'never move the gun above the target'. Well no sh!t pal....how do I stop it? That's sort of like saying 'always hit the target'. He may have mastered the power of suggestion but what do we mere mortals do?
One of the drills was sort of a protection shoot. 2 people, one shoots, the other shoots the biggest piece or the target if the 1st guy misses. 2 - 1 - 0 points for hits. He had everybody put $5 in (didn't say what for prior), and the 2 guys with the highest score won the pot. Well, it was supposed to tie everything together you learned during the class. Interesting though, while I was trying my damnest to only split or chip the target so the other guy could get a shot, I was turning every one into dust (how many times do you actually TRY to chip a target?) The other guy was getting pissed....he had no shot. Guess you could say his class worked.
The rain abbreviated the class, that part was pretty much obvious. No camera stuff and no classroom work. Kay is a very knowledgeable shooter, and his techniques WILL make you a better shooter....but you won't think it's buddy night at the lodge - that's for sure.
I've taken Hoppe's class also. Much more "I see you're doing 'this'.....to fix it try 'this' for a while and see how it goes".... They're just different methods of teaching.
I started shooting about a year and a half ago. All my trainning had been in military shooting. I took a class from Kay in April of last year and have stuck to the program. I have just started ATA a month or so back, but in the last year at my club I went from new guy to most improved and just last week 2nd high gun. If you have been shooting a long time it might be to big of a change, but if your new it will help you get up to speed.
Me and my buddy sighned on for a class about 8 yrs ago in n.j.It was a weekend course.I assumed he would tweak us he didnt he broke us down and told us how he wanted us to shoot.Debbie is nice but it appearded she was just there for practice. I rember laying in bed Sat night in the motel room thinking what a waste of money and to this day I feel cheated for $450+targets+shells+food+lodging I try somebody else.
If you think that any of the AAs is going to give you a sack of magic beans you are kidding yourself. Purchased Information/instruction is simply a better presentation of the same old stuff everyone told you for free. But that information may have come in bites that were too large and overwhelming. Obviously Mr Ohye knows how to shoot and I believe he can help people learn to shoot better. So can the other AAs who offer instruction in return for $$. Shooting good trap scores is just like bowling or golf. Basics, fundamentals, guns that fit, shoot where you look, and focused practice. The only thing any instructor can do is teach you how to work on your fundamentals or point out that your gun does not fit. All of the instructors are just trying to teach you how to shoot, not make the AA team this year. Mr Ohye happens to be one of the best of the best. Why not take his advise on methods, practice, etc??
As in any "sport", it 10% equipment and 90% ability.
And only 10% (or less) are going to rise to the top, the rest will always be looking up.
Over the years I've observed alot of people who have taken courses from the alleged "Pro's" with little or no future successes. Basically, mediocre shooter's will remain just that and those that are born with "natural talent" will succeed with some coaching.
The people I've talked with that took a class from Kay said he teaches looking for the bird out where it's broken. my question would be why out there? Is it because he sees a streak or a target with a tail in closer? No doubt it works for him but is that method best for everyone else?
A buddy of mine took a class from Dan Bonillas several years before classes with the pros were the norm. My friend was a mediocre shot at trap, with Dans help, won a championship event at the Ca. state shoot in singles.
I'd carefully choose one that has the ability to convey the knowledge and tips necessary for improvement instead of one telling me how great he is. JMHO Hap
I've been going to clinics all my adult life - mostly as part of my professional responsibilities. My philosophy has always been "I'm here to learn from the instructor - not make him (or her) my friend - if I can learn one or two useful things, the clinic is a success."
I took a two-day course with Kay in January at Miami Glades. He was a bit coarse at times, but he certainly knew what he was doing, and got the information across to most of us. I'm a much better shooter now than I was before his course. As they say, "The proof is in the pudding." Up to the time I took his course, my best ATA score was 88, my score in the shoot I took part in the week after the course was 95. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Don't expect to make a buddy. Just expect an intense course from one of the greatest shooters and teachers in the game.
Hey Kay and the Soprano's are both from New Jersey and you want lovie dovie ??
I have watched him shoot a lot and noticed he holds the gun at the level where he will break the target. He only moves the gun left or right never up or down and the gun moves less than most shooters rarely does he have to go after a bird but when he does it is not a problem. I have seen him practice before big shoots and he will shoot hundreds of rounds last time it was doubles he must have shot several hundreds and he sure can shoot doubles I enjoy just watching him shoot.
I have over the years taken several clinics with Kay ,going way back to the late 70's, once in the 80's and a doubles clinic in the 90's. The shooter has to be open to what he is tring to teach, not what they want to hear. He teaches a style that has been very effective for himself and countless others. The fundamental steps, the shooting drills and excersises are valid for whatever your own game plan is. I always took it that I was there to learn what he had to teach, not to make friends, laugh and pat each other on the back. I always came away with something that if I worked at it would add to my game. I have seen him at many shoots over the last near 30 years since that first class here in Duluth, I most always get greated with a wave or Hi Dave.
I've attended Kay's clinics regularly over the years. I haven't experienced the problems referred to above, and I've learned an enormous amount about the sport from him. I would not be shooting trap today were it not for Kay.
Kay is "down-to-earth". So be it.
There's a common misunderstanding about what Kay is teaching, that's reflected in many of the comments. Kay teaches how to win trap tournaments. Most instructors teach how to break trap targets. There's a world of difference.