K80 Release Trigger O/U Problem
Last year I traded 32" O/U barrels for 30" O/U barrels on a K80 Trap Special w/double release triggers at the Grand. Krieghoff International fitted the new O/U to my receiver. I didn't have any problems with the O/U initially but due to medical issues I wasn't shooting many (read that any) doubles until this spring when I started shooting in a doubles league. 5 wks into the league, my scores are still crappy but the O/U is shooting fine, if a little tight (and yes, all bearing surfaces are coated with Krieghoff grease).
Medical issues were resolved about that time and my doubles scores began to improve so much that I began shooting some registered doubles again. That's when I began to have FTF problems. Started with the bottom barrel but happened occasionally with the top barrel. I think the top barrel problem MAY be me trapping the trigger. The FTFs kept occurring at about 5-6 per 50 pair doubles. The last 50 pair I shot, I had 4 FTF and also the O/U became very hard to close about 5-6 times out of the 50 pair. In the meantime, I had the gun to a reputable gunsmith twice. He said the wood stock was torquing the receiver just enough to interfere with the operation of the inertial block so he relieved the stock twice to correct the problem. He also sped up the release triggers a little for the 2d shot/trapping the trigger problem. Obviously this didn't fix the problem.
When I set the trigger for the first shot, I feel movement and the click (also hear the click) when the trigger sets. When I release the trigger, there is no trigger movement at all and also no boom. Very frustrating when you have your 3d FTF and have to swallow a lost pair call. I have not had a single FTF when using the unsingle barrel.
What could be causing this problem? It's possible that triggers, firing pins and cocking levers/channels are dirty as I get a lot of crud and some unburnt powder residue in the receiver from the reloads I shoot. I would clean and relube trigger assembly, etc. if I knew what to leave dry and what to lube.
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water....
Medical issues were resolved about that time and my doubles scores began to improve so much that I began shooting some registered doubles again. That's when I began to have FTF problems. Started with the bottom barrel but happened occasionally with the top barrel. I think the top barrel problem MAY be me trapping the trigger. The FTFs kept occurring at about 5-6 per 50 pair doubles. The last 50 pair I shot, I had 4 FTF and also the O/U became very hard to close about 5-6 times out of the 50 pair. In the meantime, I had the gun to a reputable gunsmith twice. He said the wood stock was torquing the receiver just enough to interfere with the operation of the inertial block so he relieved the stock twice to correct the problem. He also sped up the release triggers a little for the 2d shot/trapping the trigger problem. Obviously this didn't fix the problem.
When I set the trigger for the first shot, I feel movement and the click (also hear the click) when the trigger sets. When I release the trigger, there is no trigger movement at all and also no boom. Very frustrating when you have your 3d FTF and have to swallow a lost pair call. I have not had a single FTF when using the unsingle barrel.
What could be causing this problem? It's possible that triggers, firing pins and cocking levers/channels are dirty as I get a lot of crud and some unburnt powder residue in the receiver from the reloads I shoot. I would clean and relube trigger assembly, etc. if I knew what to leave dry and what to lube.
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water....
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I'M not the most hip---What is FTF???SJB
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"Fail-To-Fire"
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10,106 Posts
Send it to KI now!!
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284 Posts
Okay, I've got two send it back to KI replies, one with urgency. Why? What do you suspect may be wrong or what do you think may happen if I don't get it fixed ASAP? Inquiring minds want to know.
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5,706 Posts
If someone else worked on their factory release triggers it may have voided the warranty, And I do not blame them.
GB
DLS
GB
DLS
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48 Posts
Been having the same problem. If I turn the gun to left then close it it seems to solved the problem. If you get an answer please let me know. Thanks Ken
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284 Posts
Dr Longshot, the gunsmith who worked on my K80 is an authorized Krieghoff service center gunsmith. I won't have any warranty issues.
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487 Posts
Broken pear spring?
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10,106 Posts
I'll go with a selector pear spring. The "authorized" Krieghoff gunsmith should have noticed it!!
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284 Posts
Thanks for the replies. I'll have the selector pear spring checked. In the gunsmith's defense, he worked on my gun twice in the wee hours of the morning because of the high demand for his services all week. I'm guessing he missed finding the problem because of fatigue. I won't be holding that against him cause I've been there and done that.
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563 Posts
I had the same problem at the Buckeye shoot last year took it to Krieghoff and they changed the top leaver cocking rod solved problem don't know how or why but it worked talked to them and they said common problem on some guns not all but some the cocking leaver interferes with the double releases .
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284 Posts
Still working on getting my gun to KI for service. Would like to attend the Ohio State shoot and have KI service the gun there but may not be able to make it. Otherwise, it's a choice of ship it to KI and be out a gun for a good bit of time or wait until the Grand in August. Decisions, decisions....
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284 Posts
Not yet. I fired 100 rounds through the bottom barrel and snapped a cap in the top barrel with no FTFs. The last 25 were shot after I took off the wood stock and installed an almost new PFS. A veteran shooter who was shooting with me noticed that the stock bolt on the wood stock looked like it extended too far into the receiver. He was also concerned that the gunsmith didn't relieve the wood stock enough near the inertial block mechanism which protrudes out to the right side in the receiver.
Weather today was cloudy and low to mid 60s. When I was having the problem, the weather was upper 80s and mostly sunny. Heat may have been a factor.
If the weather will ever cooperate, I'll be shooting some doubles in league later this week. I plan to let a friend shoot it then to see if the problem can be replicated by a different shooter.
Weather today was cloudy and low to mid 60s. When I was having the problem, the weather was upper 80s and mostly sunny. Heat may have been a factor.
If the weather will ever cooperate, I'll be shooting some doubles in league later this week. I plan to let a friend shoot it then to see if the problem can be replicated by a different shooter.
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1,736 Posts
I had the same problem including hang firing, two different smiths tried relieving wood inside stock and retiming triggers no fix, Phillips Gunsmith worked on it at Missouri St. Shoot and found the adj. trigger had gradually loosened and moved too far back and was making contact with the trigger guard. It was binding up and not releasing right, it happened so slowly that I didn't even notice that the length of pull had changed ever so slightly. Shot it at our central zone shoot this wk-end and everything is back to normal. It could be worth looking at...Al
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284 Posts
I shot 75 pair doubles today in league using the PFS stock instead of the wood stock. I didn't have any FTF problems using the PFS stock that weren't self-inflicted (I trapped the trigger twice during the practice round, on the second shot).
I'll switch back to the wood stock and see if the problem reoccurs. May not do that for a couple of weeks though. I want to finish league and monthly shoot using the PFS.
I'll switch back to the wood stock and see if the problem reoccurs. May not do that for a couple of weeks though. I want to finish league and monthly shoot using the PFS.
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284 Posts
Well, I put the wood stock back on and shot 75 pair of doubles in practice last week as well as 50 pair in league. The gun hardware is fine and functioning as it should. It's the software side of the gun that has the problem. Until last week, I wouldn't have believed it possible to trap the first shot of doubles. But I did, several times, during those 125 pair, as well as several on the second shot.
Some were just plain flinches, I was unable to move my trigger finger at all. Others, my trigger finger moved enough to allow some movement in the trigger but then snapped back into a set before the gun could fire. So I learned several things last week:
One, the gun is functioning fine, the shooter is not.
Two, you can trap the first shot of doubles.
Three, you can flinch with a release trigger.
Four, you can recover from both a flinch and a trapped trigger, and break the targets, if you know what is happening and are determined enough to follow the target after the flinch/trap and (eventually) fire the gun. Some second birds were taken very low, 2-4 feet above the ground.
Five, I learned that the flinches/traps were caused by what Phil Kiner calls "quick calls". If I rushed the setup, mount or call; if I felt rushed at all prior to or during the setup/mount/call, it almost always resulted in a flinch/trap. If I took my time and was deliberate in both the setup, gun mount and call, I didn't have any trouble with flinches/traps. As a bonus, when I was deliberate as described in the preceding, it almost always resulted in a call of "dead pair".
I would have preferred a hardware problem that could be fixed relatively easily but I think I can work through this "wetware" issue.
Some were just plain flinches, I was unable to move my trigger finger at all. Others, my trigger finger moved enough to allow some movement in the trigger but then snapped back into a set before the gun could fire. So I learned several things last week:
One, the gun is functioning fine, the shooter is not.
Two, you can trap the first shot of doubles.
Three, you can flinch with a release trigger.
Four, you can recover from both a flinch and a trapped trigger, and break the targets, if you know what is happening and are determined enough to follow the target after the flinch/trap and (eventually) fire the gun. Some second birds were taken very low, 2-4 feet above the ground.
Five, I learned that the flinches/traps were caused by what Phil Kiner calls "quick calls". If I rushed the setup, mount or call; if I felt rushed at all prior to or during the setup/mount/call, it almost always resulted in a flinch/trap. If I took my time and was deliberate in both the setup, gun mount and call, I didn't have any trouble with flinches/traps. As a bonus, when I was deliberate as described in the preceding, it almost always resulted in a call of "dead pair".
I would have preferred a hardware problem that could be fixed relatively easily but I think I can work through this "wetware" issue.
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