[Hookedonshooting]

Heres the link to the pictures, sorry

http://s1338.photobucket.com/user/PacermanMike/library/Model%2012%20Skeet

 

[johnpe]

While Winchester did make 16 gauge M12 skeet guns, they are unusual. The barrel may well have been cut. The WS-1 choke's bore narrowed by about 0.005" about 2 1/2 inches from the muzzle then flared out by about 0.020 inches at the muzzle from the bore diameter. Two inches off of the barrel would get back into the constriction.

Johnpe

 

[Hookedonshooting]

Hi John, from what i read the 12 gauge ws-1 did have constriction of .005. 20 gauge and 16 gauge constrictions were .003 - .004. And to be honest, if they were THAT precise in the machining process, i'd bet my house. LOL.

Understand your comment about the way ws-1's were choked. Again on other threads I read it was all done in the last 1.5 inches of the barrel, with the very end at the muzzle being slightly more open than cylinder.

Trying to find someone who has this barrel that can support the thought it is factory. Again, this "custom job" by the factory could be different than the specs set up for the 26" std ws-1's. Possible??

 

[johnpe]

Hookedonshooting. My numbers come from the Winchester factory choke drawings dated 1963. I have two WS-1 chokes in 12 gauge, one on a M12 and the other on a M21 and both measure pretty much as stated.

Johnpe

 

[Jawhawker]

Does the surface area around muzzle look correct?

You could also call Bed lands guns in Neb. Felix is a good authority on rare to don't exist items.

 

[Hookedonshooting]

Pheasantmaster, I'll try him. Spoke with the owner re another topic last week.

John,I'm blonde so forgive me. Your model 12's are .005-.006. But they are 12 gauges correct? 16 gauge and 20's came with .003-.004.

getting a gauge reading 3" down into a std/uncut 26" barrel, should not give me a .003 should it.

 

[lwr_]

Yep, the barrel has obviously been cut. Solid ribs on the Model 12s terminated rather thin at the muzzle. The picture of the barrel end reveals that the rib is thicker at the muzzle than it would be had in not been cut.

Also, observe the discoloring at the muzzle end. I suspect that someone had installed a polychoke at some time on this gun. Then in an attempt to make it look original and increase value someone had the polychoke cut off.

Post some clearer pictures of the muzzle end. That should solve the mystery.

 

[boomer]

Many years ago I owned a M12 16ga. Skeet gun It had a 24 inch barrel--it was DEFINITELY cut. Heck of a quail gun though!!!

 

[g7777777]

Those 16 gauge skeet were made to shoot in the 12 gauge event for women, boys and men of smaller stature

The barrel has been cut

I own one with a Cutts Compensator on it

Due to the loss of records in a fire, they dont know how many 16 gauge skeet guns were produced or sold but it wasnt a lot

Regards from Iowa

Gene

 

[lwr_]

Seems every firearms mfg in America claims they have had a fire that destroyed their records.

 

[johnpe]

Hookedonshooting. Im assuming that you are thinking the inside of the barrel at the muzzles of my two WS-1 chokes are 0.005-0.006 inches less than the bore diameter. No, my Winchester barrels do tighten up about 2-2 1/2 inches from the muzzle by about 0.005 inches then flare outward until the end of the barrels measure about 0.020 inches larger than the bore. That is the original design of the WS-1 for both 12 and 16 gauge. In 1963 the 12 gauge WS-1 choke was changed to a straight cylinder. In 1965 both the 16 gauge and 20 gauge WS-1 chokes were changed to straight cylinders. Specifically for the 16 gauge and using the minimum bore diameter of 0.670 inches, the point of the tightest part of the inside of the barrel, some 2+ inches from the muzzle, was to measure 0.675 inches and the diameter at the muzzle end was specified to be 0.690 inches. By the way, the transition from 0.670 to 0.675 inches was cut on a 17 foot radius. I think what you are referencing is the "new" system which only measures the constriction from the bore diameter and gives it a name rather than describing choke by performance.

Johnpe

 

[dustinthewind]

I have a M12 16ga. WS1. Barrel is 25 1/4", bore is .667, 3" from end changes from to .660, at 2" starts changing to .680. SN is 735xxx. Also it is solid rib

 

[GR Eubanks]

Johnpe knows his Winchester barrels.

Good Info...

Roger

 

[eightbore]

Dustin, you need to learn how to measure Winchester pump gun barrels. The measurement is from the breech face to the muzzle, not just the barrel when the gun is disassembled.

 

[Hookedonshooting]

Well I sold this gun 4 weeks ago to a fellow at my club. He sold it to a collector who traced it to the original buyer. Dale Evans. Also know as the wife of Roy Rogers. How in the hell did he find that info?

 

[lwr_]

I doubt he did. All of my Model 12s were owned by famous people before I bought them too. So the previous owners who sold them to me said. Just like every 65 and 66 Mustang that is being sold once belonged to Carrol Shelby or Lee Iacocca.

 

[DoubleAuto]

Have a WS2 choked barrel for a Model 12 with a solid rib. Stu Wright said it was from the 1950's and he had seen very few of them.

 

[eightbore]

I measured two 12 gauge WS1 barrels yesterday. They had .009 and .010 of choke and were flared to about .745 at the muzzle. The bore diameters were .733 and .734.