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Is this Model 12 SKEET 16 gauge unique?

5396 Views 18 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  eightbore
Ran across a gent selling this Model 12. Everything is original. Picture make it look rusty, but there is no rust, just patina. Here are the specs:

1940 mfg date
16 gauge
Receiver marked SKEET
24" WS-1 barrel with .003 constriction
solid rib
14" lop

Check out the pics and let me know.

Kept getting told someone cut the barrel. But have conformation Winchester did make any barrel length custom after the depression to sell guns. Also know someone of acclaim that has one in her safe, albeit a 12gauge.

Local gunshops dont believe it was cut either. Taking 2 " off the std 26" barrel would make it cylinder. This has .003 constriction.

Anyone see something like this?? Thanks for your input. Mike



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While Winchester did make 16 gauge M12 skeet guns, they are unusual. The barrel may well have been cut. The WS-1 choke's bore narrowed by about 0.005" about 2 1/2 inches from the muzzle then flared out by about 0.020 inches at the muzzle from the bore diameter. Two inches off of the barrel would get back into the constriction.

Johnpe
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi John, from what i read the 12 gauge ws-1 did have constriction of .005. 20 gauge and 16 gauge constrictions were .003 - .004. And to be honest, if they were THAT precise in the machining process, i'd bet my house. LOL.

Understand your comment about the way ws-1's were choked. Again on other threads I read it was all done in the last 1.5 inches of the barrel, with the very end at the muzzle being slightly more open than cylinder.

Trying to find someone who has this barrel that can support the thought it is factory. Again, this "custom job" by the factory could be different than the specs set up for the 26" std ws-1's. Possible??
 

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Hookedonshooting. My numbers come from the Winchester factory choke drawings dated 1963. I have two WS-1 chokes in 12 gauge, one on a M12 and the other on a M21 and both measure pretty much as stated.

Johnpe
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Pheasantmaster, I'll try him. Spoke with the owner re another topic last week.

John,I'm blonde so forgive me. Your model 12's are .005-.006. But they are 12 gauges correct? 16 gauge and 20's came with .003-.004.

getting a gauge reading 3" down into a std/uncut 26" barrel, should not give me a .003 should it.
 

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Yep, the barrel has obviously been cut. Solid ribs on the Model 12s terminated rather thin at the muzzle. The picture of the barrel end reveals that the rib is thicker at the muzzle than it would be had in not been cut.

Also, observe the discoloring at the muzzle end. I suspect that someone had installed a polychoke at some time on this gun. Then in an attempt to make it look original and increase value someone had the polychoke cut off.

Post some clearer pictures of the muzzle end. That should solve the mystery.
 

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Those 16 gauge skeet were made to shoot in the 12 gauge event for women, boys and men of smaller stature

The barrel has been cut

I own one with a Cutts Compensator on it

Due to the loss of records in a fire, they dont know how many 16 gauge skeet guns were produced or sold but it wasnt a lot

Regards from Iowa

Gene
 

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Hookedonshooting. Im assuming that you are thinking the inside of the barrel at the muzzles of my two WS-1 chokes are 0.005-0.006 inches less than the bore diameter. No, my Winchester barrels do tighten up about 2-2 1/2 inches from the muzzle by about 0.005 inches then flare outward until the end of the barrels measure about 0.020 inches larger than the bore. That is the original design of the WS-1 for both 12 and 16 gauge. In 1963 the 12 gauge WS-1 choke was changed to a straight cylinder. In 1965 both the 16 gauge and 20 gauge WS-1 chokes were changed to straight cylinders. Specifically for the 16 gauge and using the minimum bore diameter of 0.670 inches, the point of the tightest part of the inside of the barrel, some 2+ inches from the muzzle, was to measure 0.675 inches and the diameter at the muzzle end was specified to be 0.690 inches. By the way, the transition from 0.670 to 0.675 inches was cut on a 17 foot radius. I think what you are referencing is the "new" system which only measures the constriction from the bore diameter and gives it a name rather than describing choke by performance.

Johnpe
 

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I doubt he did. All of my Model 12s were owned by famous people before I bought them too. So the previous owners who sold them to me said. Just like every 65 and 66 Mustang that is being sold once belonged to Carrol Shelby or Lee Iacocca.
 
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