Trapshooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I shot with a shotkam yesterday for the first time after borrowing it from my friend and getting it setup, I shot about 100 targets, for the most part I am pointing the gun where it needs to be and making good shots, but I have found on some harder left/right angles, I made a good move but it seems my shot string shot over the target.

I have not patterned my gun in awhile but I would have to say it is shooting 100% high, this was when I was shooting a high gun, both eyes open. I have recently transitioned to shooting one eyed, and holding low on the house, my registered scores have already increased and my shooting has become more consistant. Now from what I've seen, I shoot the birds at a consistent height, about 80-90% of it's maximum height.

With hard rights, I find I take a bit longer to get target locked compared to two eye so I think my high POI is causing some lost targets, here are two videos and screenshots of my sight picture and shot pattern.

Now I did find some videos where I picked up a few targets that I shot a bit too early, especially straight aways that I short shot and still broke the target, but Id rather correct the POI of a shot I pointed very well and reinforce a correct sight picture, rather than picking up a few birds I short shot cause of my high POI.

Let me know your thoughts...

Hard right from post 5

First screen grab, the frame right before the shot goes off, the lead looks perfect to me.


First clear image of shot after the recoil, you can see the pattern is very high, maybe even slightly more than 100% high, if this bird was shot 50% of its maximum height I think the POI would have worked great for this shot but considering where I shot i think it may be too high.


Another frame grab after the shot has gone out a bit further, seems to be on the fringes of my pattern.



Here is a hard left from post 2

Frame grab right before the shot is taken, again I think my lead is spot on.


You can see how high the pattern is compared to where I pulled the trigger.


And again missed bird to due being under the POI.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
My thoughts:

1. Why did you go from shooting two eyes opened to only one?

2. Leo Harrison showed in a video that one eyed shooters are at a disadvantage on post 5 because you have to wait for the bird to clear through your barrels before you can pick it up. As such, if I were you, I’d hold an even lower gun on post 5 and try to catch the bird now going over your barrels instead of after it has snuck past the blind spot they crest for a one eyed shooter.

3. On post one, I’d hold out farther towards the left edge of the house. Personally, I hold about a foot to each side of the house for posts 1 and 5.

4. You might benefit from locking the trap for a straight away on post 3 and shoot a bunch so as to hone your sight picture that gives you good smoke balls with a full choke.

5. Lastly, my Garmin Xero showed me that by far each time I missed hard rights it was because I was OVER leading them. The Garmin has helped to dispel many porch talk sayings, such as, “You can’t lead a bird far enough” or that one can read breaks. I’ve knocked the very back of the bird off by shooting high, low, AND even in front of the clay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Just one guy's opinion..... Your low hold point creates a bunch more gun movement , especially upwards. This with a 100%+ pattern is the main reason that you are so high on the harder angles. One eye shooting is usually but not always a little slower on the reaction time, and that means a faster swing thru, also not working with the low hold point. That causes a lot of movement and a lot of barrel speed. Try a higher hold point and calling for target with both eyes open, and then shade if you are truly a one eyed guy. You SHOULD identify the target path and react quicker, swing slower and shorter, and hopefully break them all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I've shot about 1500~ registered targets shooting two eyed and have never broken higher than a 91, very inconsistent scores, some days Ill shoot great and some days Ill miss several targets with no idea why.

I started shooting one eye in August and broke a 95 in registered two weeks after I started shooting one eyed, to me I am much more consistent, have a much clearer sight picture and know why I miss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
I shoot with one eye and hold on the backcorner of the trap house on 1&5. I don't have to lead targets shooting from 1. If I'm ahead of the target lost. Rights I can be a little in front of the target but can still break it if I'm on the target. If I lead them as much as you did in the video I would not hit a thing. Gun shoots to center of pattern 18" above aim point have a 97+ average on the 16, 27 handicap 92 ave.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
Seems like you are over compensating to me. Keep your eye on the target and pull the trigger when you get to the target not past it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,634 Posts
You wrote: "I've shot about 1500~ registered targets shooting two eyed and have never broken higher than a 91, very inconsistent scores, some days Ill shoot great and some days Ill miss several targets with no idea why."

I believe your POI is much too high for a relatively new shooter based on your target count.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,039 Posts
I highly suggest you get yourself a Terry Jordan wall chart. I believe that your leads and sight picture would greatly improve with this tool.
MG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
For what it's worth, my opinion and my experience coaching over the years is this.

If you indeed have to shoot with one eye (closed or covered) then as a general rule your POI will need to be lower because you will be forced to generate more barrel speed because of a lower trap house hold. More speed will require a lower shooting shotgun. Proof of this is if you ask any decent Olympic Trap shooter you will find nobody really shooting well higher that a 70/30 pattern (60/40 is very widely used) in ATA 100% high patterns are common, but they are generally by two-eyed shooters holding their guns above the trap and therefore producing less gun speed.

Go to the pattern board and find out exactly what's going on down-range.

I would also suggest if you need to only use one eye then buy a set of shooting glasses and patch out your other eye with some smudged tape. this will allow you to shoot with your other eye wide open. Many people that close one eye squint out of their good eye which will cause you some grief, especially in poor light conditions.

Cheers and good luck.

Russell Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I highly suggest you get yourself a Terry Jordan wall chart. I believe that your leads and sight picture would greatly improve with this tool.
MG
I have a wall chart, did you watch the video and read the analysts at all? I made a good move to the target and the sight picture is exactly where the poa needed to be, I was just wondering if I lost those targets due to a too high poi which I think I have confirmed already
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,039 Posts
I have a wall chart, did you watch the video and read the analysts at all? I made a good move to the target and the sight picture is exactly where the poa needed to be, I was just wondering if I lost those targets due to a too high poi which I think I have confirmed already
I watched the video and I see your little red dot blowing over and past the target before you ever fired the shot.
MG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
I watched your videos. I think your problem is the amount of lead. You have too much lead in the first video. it didn't look like a hard right target and your lead is a bit too much. You did not have enough lead on the second shot. It looked like a hard left from post 2. With not enough lead showing on the shotkam, most likely you shot behind the target. If your gun is truly 100% high like you said, your POI is too high considering how the red-dot is showing on the shotkam videos.

I have both shotkam and Garmin Xero S1. I actually used both to correlate how my shot placement and lead. I have recorded thousands of shotkam videos and watched them too. If your shotgun has adjustable rib, combs and etc, try to adjust one thing at a time and try. I don't adjust how I shoot. I adjust the gun to shoot where I look. When I looked my shotkam videos, my shotkam dot placement correlated well with what Garmin Xero S1 showed. My shot placement is within 5 inches of clay targets. This takes time and efforts to do it. Of course, I still miss targets, but it's because I either jerk the gun, over-swing, or no follow through, and etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
I watched the video and I see your little red dot blowing over and past the target before you ever fired the shot.
MG
Bingo. When I look at hard left/rights that I missed, they have the exact same reticle position on the playback. Blew past the target and Lost. The hard left/right birds that were smoked dead nuts center, the reticle never gets above the bird. I’d say it’s about 8 inches to a foot under and 2-3 feet in front on the frame right before the shot. 6 frames later there’s a smoke ball.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
1716865


This is your second video and from what I can tell where the bird is in the screen shot I took, it’s at about 80% of its maximum height and you are just beginning to leave from your orginal hold point. By the time you are reaching the target it is beginning to plane out (especially on hard rights and lefts) and your gun barrel is still climbing. if you are going to be a one eyed shooter and hold down on the house and also shoot a 100% POI, then it’s my opinion you need to practice Staying low sweeping slightly underneath the target and pulling the trigger rather then crossing the target and pulling the trigger on your hard angles.

Maybe I’m wrong just my 2 cents
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,908 Posts
I am a one eyed shooter and hold my gun below the top of the Trap House. My shotgun shoots about 60% to 70% high. When I go after the target I pull the trigger as soon as my barrel gets to the target. On hard lefts and hard rights from the 16 yard line I pull the trigger as soon as I get just in front of the target.

When you are moving your barrel faster than the target your barrel speed will give you some lead in front of the target that you don't see.

I took some pictures of my friends shooting Skeet low house #8 targets and we all shot as soon as we got on the low house #8 target. So we all thought we were not leading the targets. In the pictures you can see there is some lead in front of the targets. Your gun speed and reaction time will give you some lead that you don' see.

2016-05-11 16.23.49-5 - Copy by https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr
2016-05-11 16.23.49-6 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

In these Skeet targets pictures the gun speed and trigger pull reaction time gives the shooter some lead that they don't see.

I am pretty sure the Trap Shooters that don't think they are leading hard left and hard right targets are breaking the targets with a lead that they don't see.

2016-05-11 16.22.16-5 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr
2016-05-11 16.22.16-6 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

If you are shooting Trap targets with a low hold on the house I don't think you would need a shotgun that is shooting 100% high.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
I am not saying that you have the ideal POI set-up, but I caution you against making POI adjustments based on misses, especially the two that you posted here. What I see is that you were thrown two angle targets that you did not pick-up well as they left the house, for whatever reason, it could be mental, a distraction perhaps. You reacted late and then you swung past and through the target. It happens to the best of us. I had one miss the other day that I could have smoked if my gun patterned 24 inches low and 36 inches to the left. (You get my point.)

Take a look at your hits, the other 90+ shots and see where the gun shoots when you do everything right. Trapshooting is about repeating what works not avoiding what doesn't.

Follow the smoke,
Kirby
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
35 Posts
For what it's worth, my opinion and my experience coaching over the years is this.

If you indeed have to shoot with one eye (closed or covered) then as a general rule your POI will need to be lower because you will be forced to generate more barrel speed because of a lower trap house hold. More speed will require a lower shooting shotgun. Proof of this is if you ask any decent Olympic Trap shooter you will find nobody really shooting well higher that a 70/30 pattern (60/40 is very widely used) in ATA 100% high patterns are common, but they are generally by two-eyed shooters holding their guns above the trap and therefore producing less gun speed.

Go to the pattern board and find out exactly what's going on down-range.

I would also suggest if you need to only use one eye then buy a set of shooting glasses and patch out your other eye with some smudged tape. this will allow you to shoot with your other eye wide open. Many people that close one eye squint out of their good eye which will cause you some grief, especially in poor light conditions.

Cheers and good luck.

Russell Mark
The last person I took lessons from suggested the same tape/patch suggestion so I got some magic dots and shoot both eyes open and it helped me. I took some time off and just coming back to shooting but it still helps me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
I shot with a shotkam yesterday for the first time after borrowing it from my friend and getting it setup, I shot about 100 targets, for the most part I am pointing the gun where it needs to be and making good shots, but I have found on some harder left/right angles, I made a good move but it seems my shot string shot over the target.
Not sure if anyone said this already because I didn't read all the response but I watched the video several times and also at .5 speed. You are lifting your head just before you pull the trigger and the gun is going up. I have a shotkam and know exactly how to tell this. You were perfectly on the target and inline but the moment you are about to pull the trigger the gun jerked up indicating a classic head lift. Practice keeping your head on the stock for 2+ seconds after the shot and if you can't then you know you were not on the stock when you pulled the trigger.

Below is a video of two of my shots with a shotkam, the first one my face came off the gun at the moment of the shot, note the wild move of the barrel (crosshairs) at and after the shot and the how smooth and still on target I was on the second shot. My miss looks a lot your your video, see if you can find good hits of yours and compare what the barrel does after the shot


Here is another video (not by me) that shows a head lift:
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top