Looking at some scores at the recent Cardinal Center. Can you believe 65 and 70 year olds breaking 200 straights in 16 yard events. Most of the other classes also broke 200 straights. Interesting
smsnyder
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Are ya saying that 65 to 70 year oles shouldn't be breaking that kind of scores? Hell man, thats discrimination.
GneJ
GneJ
Well, it does give us fat, over the hill baby boomers something to aspire to now doesn't it?
Is it too easy?, Yes. Can I do it (200 straight) - hell no. Will I keep trying?, hell yes!
Is it too easy?, Yes. Can I do it (200 straight) - hell no. Will I keep trying?, hell yes!
If you look at the big shoots, yes, it seems too easy. However, it's just
about right for the small trapshoots of which there are hundreds throughout
the country. Shoots with 20 to 50 shooters will have a pretty nice distribution of scores - possibly only one 100 straight in singles, and a nice array of scores from 99 down into the high 80's. It makes the sport competitive at all levels, and everyone can aspire to have that perfect score.
Contrast that with sporting clays where the average good shooter, who will shoot in the 70's or low 80's, knows on the best day of his life he won't come close to the top shooters who will post scores in the 90's.
about right for the small trapshoots of which there are hundreds throughout
the country. Shoots with 20 to 50 shooters will have a pretty nice distribution of scores - possibly only one 100 straight in singles, and a nice array of scores from 99 down into the high 80's. It makes the sport competitive at all levels, and everyone can aspire to have that perfect score.
Contrast that with sporting clays where the average good shooter, who will shoot in the 70's or low 80's, knows on the best day of his life he won't come close to the top shooters who will post scores in the 90's.
Singles is a miss and out at most any big shoot, that even goes for the lower classes. When I was D class I shot a 96 and thought for sure I won my class for the day ended up losing to a 98. Its all part of the game yes the targets are easy but the challenge for me is to stay focused and consistant for 100-200 targets.
Whaty about Yardage, how many shooters ever make to the 27?
Whaty about Yardage, how many shooters ever make to the 27?
For the best shooters, YES, it's obviuosly too easy.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH LIMITING THE PAYLOAD 3/4" oz.?
BENEFITS:
1) Trap would be a more interesting spectator sport.
2) Less cost for shooters at any given lead price.
3) Likely to reduce per-lb cost of shot because demand would go down.
4) Better for attracting new shooters because of lower cost.
5) Better for attracting new shooters because of lower recoil.
6) Fewer ACTUAL environmental issues for Clubs.
7) Fewer FICTITIOUS environmental issues for anti-gunners to use against us.
SACRIFICES:
1) A demarcation line would need to be drawn in the record books (big deal, shells and equipment have changed over the years anyway).
2) Egos would be temporarily bruised.
3) Your favorite reloading recipe would need revised (Gasp!).
4) Club Geezers would be embarrassed because their diminished shooting skills would be even more apparent (oops, that one belongs in the BENEFITS section).
So, can anyone make an equally strong and specific argument AGAINST limiting payload to 3/4 oz.?
If not, then can we make this obviously beneficial change over the next few years? Or will we, like Washington politicians, be ruled by ego and self-interest rather than logic and what's best for the future?
-Gary
WHAT'S WRONG WITH LIMITING THE PAYLOAD 3/4" oz.?
BENEFITS:
1) Trap would be a more interesting spectator sport.
2) Less cost for shooters at any given lead price.
3) Likely to reduce per-lb cost of shot because demand would go down.
4) Better for attracting new shooters because of lower cost.
5) Better for attracting new shooters because of lower recoil.
6) Fewer ACTUAL environmental issues for Clubs.
7) Fewer FICTITIOUS environmental issues for anti-gunners to use against us.
SACRIFICES:
1) A demarcation line would need to be drawn in the record books (big deal, shells and equipment have changed over the years anyway).
2) Egos would be temporarily bruised.
3) Your favorite reloading recipe would need revised (Gasp!).
4) Club Geezers would be embarrassed because their diminished shooting skills would be even more apparent (oops, that one belongs in the BENEFITS section).
So, can anyone make an equally strong and specific argument AGAINST limiting payload to 3/4 oz.?
If not, then can we make this obviously beneficial change over the next few years? Or will we, like Washington politicians, be ruled by ego and self-interest rather than logic and what's best for the future?
-Gary
Years ago they had the machines throwing a 3hole target. Far angle shots to the left and right. They were not that easy to hit. Now its a 2 hole target. They are not trying to keep the game harder but are now making it easier to get more shooters.
To me thats like a football player say a running back who is really good at carrying the ball and then say he is so good that he now has to drag a cahined tire arounf his waist to slow him down.
HEY if you can't run with the big dogs then stay on the poarch. Why should the rules be adjusted because your not good enough to play the game.
To me thats like a football player say a running back who is really good at carrying the ball and then say he is so good that he now has to drag a cahined tire arounf his waist to slow him down.
HEY if you can't run with the big dogs then stay on the poarch. Why should the rules be adjusted because your not good enough to play the game.
Auctioneer:
You may have a point about fluffers being used to attract young shooters but if you look at my list of benefits/sacrifices for 3/4 oz. payload I think you'll agree that ignoring this is a misguided choice. Besides, if you point the gun properly and get on the target quickly, 3/4 oz. breaks targets amazingly well. Try it. Besides, at the end of the day, isn't pointing properly and quickly pulling the trigger really the essence of trapshooting?
-Gary
You may have a point about fluffers being used to attract young shooters but if you look at my list of benefits/sacrifices for 3/4 oz. payload I think you'll agree that ignoring this is a misguided choice. Besides, if you point the gun properly and get on the target quickly, 3/4 oz. breaks targets amazingly well. Try it. Besides, at the end of the day, isn't pointing properly and quickly pulling the trigger really the essence of trapshooting?
-Gary
I do think if the ATA was to make changes to make the game harder or go back to the old Trap settings, they will need to walk a fine line. You don't want to make it too hard too fast and lose intrest from our young shooters which is the sports future in my opinion. In the same token, it can't become so easy that its boring. It sure don't look easy based on my scores.
Thank you for asking the inconvenient and unpopular question.
The answer is absolutely. American shooters are falling far behind on the world Trap stage, as other countries shoot more challenging Trap targets. While full bunker is expensive to install, ATA trap should be gradually retired and replaced with Automatic Ball Trap, sometimes inelegantly and inaccurately referred to as "Wobble." ABT machines could directly replace ATA machines in every house. While a shooter's platform is preferred, it is not required.
We need faster targets with variation in both elevation and direction. We need more matches settled in 100 rounds, and we need less perfect scores.
Would anyone watch Tennis if every volley required 200 returns, per side, before the point was concluded?
GW's limited payload ought be immediately implemented.
Lower scores would lure new shooters by removing the implicit requirement to shoot perfect rounds to be competitive.
The answer is absolutely. American shooters are falling far behind on the world Trap stage, as other countries shoot more challenging Trap targets. While full bunker is expensive to install, ATA trap should be gradually retired and replaced with Automatic Ball Trap, sometimes inelegantly and inaccurately referred to as "Wobble." ABT machines could directly replace ATA machines in every house. While a shooter's platform is preferred, it is not required.
We need faster targets with variation in both elevation and direction. We need more matches settled in 100 rounds, and we need less perfect scores.
Would anyone watch Tennis if every volley required 200 returns, per side, before the point was concluded?
GW's limited payload ought be immediately implemented.
Lower scores would lure new shooters by removing the implicit requirement to shoot perfect rounds to be competitive.
Could not agree more with IndyShotgun.
Trap was made easier several years ago when they reduced the bird spread angles - the records today are already 'tainted'. There is now chatter about making handicap further back because there are too many people at the 27 - just need to revert back to wider spread and the problem will resolve itself without the need for aquiring more land or poring any concrete.
A shoot of any size always goes into shootoffs- taking additional time and money - why would anyone think that is appealing to new shooters? The better shooters will always rise to the top and the distribution would be more evenly spread - yes the lesser shooters would have to stop trying to kid themselves (or others) that they routinely aren't as good as Leo, Harlan, Ray, etc. - no real surprise there. It serves no positive purpose to have so many perfect scores only to always move to a shootoff - let's settle as many events as possible without the additional time and money of shootoffs.
If baseball moved the fences in and the number of homeruns went up drastically, they'd at least move them back out again -the ATA needs to do the same with the bird spread by going back to 3 hole IMO. (And consider speeding up the bird.)
As an aside - shot wobble trap yesterday for the first time - wow, a LOT of fun...
Trap was made easier several years ago when they reduced the bird spread angles - the records today are already 'tainted'. There is now chatter about making handicap further back because there are too many people at the 27 - just need to revert back to wider spread and the problem will resolve itself without the need for aquiring more land or poring any concrete.
A shoot of any size always goes into shootoffs- taking additional time and money - why would anyone think that is appealing to new shooters? The better shooters will always rise to the top and the distribution would be more evenly spread - yes the lesser shooters would have to stop trying to kid themselves (or others) that they routinely aren't as good as Leo, Harlan, Ray, etc. - no real surprise there. It serves no positive purpose to have so many perfect scores only to always move to a shootoff - let's settle as many events as possible without the additional time and money of shootoffs.
If baseball moved the fences in and the number of homeruns went up drastically, they'd at least move them back out again -the ATA needs to do the same with the bird spread by going back to 3 hole IMO. (And consider speeding up the bird.)
As an aside - shot wobble trap yesterday for the first time - wow, a LOT of fun...
Let's use 26" guns with no choke, black powder, #12 shot, 4 hole settins, asprin sized targets moving at 100 mph, gun down and a 5 sec delay. That ought to just about do it!
Lets just change the whole game and not even call it Trap anymore. Sheeesh some subtle changes yes but some of you are carried away. I'm curious as to how many that want complete overhauls of Trap are All American caliber??? If not it must not be too easy.
I agree with Indyshotgun, and personally (please I am not trying to offend any sensibilities) find 16 yard trap with 1 1/8 grams of shot kind of boring and predictable.
I would give shooters more of an option to use wobble traps, or automatic ball, and definitely go the a maximum 1 ounce, and even the 7/8 international load, that breaks them just as good.
It would benefit the sport, and generate more interest amongst younger shooters.
I would rather shoot international or bunker trap, but that is more challenging because of the limited courses in the USA, and the higher operating costs because of the 15 machines.
I would give shooters more of an option to use wobble traps, or automatic ball, and definitely go the a maximum 1 ounce, and even the 7/8 international load, that breaks them just as good.
It would benefit the sport, and generate more interest amongst younger shooters.
I would rather shoot international or bunker trap, but that is more challenging because of the limited courses in the USA, and the higher operating costs because of the 15 machines.
Sporting clays winner: Score of 95
Conversation......."wow, great round Sam!"
Trapshooting loser: Score of 98
Conversation....."how did you do Sam?"...."No good, no good"
Conversation overheard at a recent shoot I was at prior to an uupcoming shootoff for 200/200........"Hell, I don't want to shoot another 500 rounds to win a 10 dollar cooler!"
I believe this is a problem of trap being too easy for the top shooters. The same folks will win if the game is made more difficult, but it will put some reality back in the different classifications for singles.
Lyle
PS....I need one more target from the fence to have a grand slam....if that matters!
Conversation......."wow, great round Sam!"
Trapshooting loser: Score of 98
Conversation....."how did you do Sam?"...."No good, no good"
Conversation overheard at a recent shoot I was at prior to an uupcoming shootoff for 200/200........"Hell, I don't want to shoot another 500 rounds to win a 10 dollar cooler!"
I believe this is a problem of trap being too easy for the top shooters. The same folks will win if the game is made more difficult, but it will put some reality back in the different classifications for singles.
Lyle
PS....I need one more target from the fence to have a grand slam....if that matters!
"GW's limited payload ought be immediately implemented."
A noble statement. So just who is going to inform the shell manufacturers to change from the shells they are now making???? To 3/4oz loads that I can't ever remember seeing in gun shops anywhere.
Bob Lawless
A noble statement. So just who is going to inform the shell manufacturers to change from the shells they are now making???? To 3/4oz loads that I can't ever remember seeing in gun shops anywhere.
Bob Lawless
If you want to be humbled try shooting skeet and sporting clays with a 410. Did both today. OUCH, the clay birds won big time. Yes, I still flinched even with a 410 and it wasn't because of recoil. LOL
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