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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My Fellow Reloaders and Shooters,
I have been reloading both Metallic and Shot Shell for over 40 years and have never seen this.
I was given 4 Reloads to tear down and verify correct powder and shot weights by a shooting friend of mine.

The Load is on the Alliant website and is as follows:
Federal Gold Medal Hull
Fed 209A Primer
24.0 Green Dot
1 1/8 oz Shot
Windjammer WAD
1310 fps at 8800 psi


Upon visual inspection of the hulls, I noticed buckling in the cases, and suspected something was wrong.

All 4 cases were Gold Medal Hulls and had the same bulging. I know he refuses to use a scale and just goes by the Bushing Charts.

Primers were Cheddite, not Fed 209A primers per the recipe.
All powder was Green Dot
All wads were Windjammers

All shell components were weighed on a Hornady Digital scale with proper calibration.

Hull #1
25.2 gr Green Dot
501 gr shot

Hull #2
23.9 gr Green Dot
498 gr shot

Hull #3
23.5 gr Green Dot after I took the live primer out of the powder !! Yes a live Cheddite Primer in the Powder!!
504 gr Shot

Hull#4
24.2 gr Green Dot
494 gr Shot

I almost fell off my loading stool when that primer fell out with the powder!!
I have never seen this in my 40+ years of reloading

I have no clue how this could happen, but am very concerned on what may have happened if this shell was fired.

He has a nickname around the Club as "Misfire @@@@" and now I am pretty sure why.

I had a witness standing there when I was cutting the hulls apart and weighing the components, he about s**t his pants too!!

The loads were all over the place in weight, and the Live Primer really spooks me.

I wonder what may have happened if this shell was fired ?
Would the primer Detonate upon powder ignition ?
Fly down the Barrel and cause internal damage ?

Any thoughts or experiences from fellow reloaders would be greatly appreciated in regards to this.

And yes, I will be real skeptical shooting near him in the future, and will be having a little chat with him.

Stay Safe,
Wadcrusher

primerinpowder.jpg
 

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I would doubt the heat from the power igniting would have a long enough duration to set the 2nd primer off, but my guess would be that it would be basically impossible to know for sure since recovery may not be possible. The only thing that might give a clue would be pressure testing given these exact circumstances.

What it should tell you is to NEVER squad with this guy in the future if you value your body. He should be STRONGLY incentivized to shoot factory shells only and never reload again.

Outside of the primer, the loads are basically safe. The primer sub resulted in lower pressure and velocity, which offset the additional powder and likely brought it back to a wash. The Windjammer wad is also a poor choice for that hull.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I would doubt the heat from the power igniting would have a long enough duration to set the 2nd primer off, but my guess would be that it would be basically impossible to know for sure since recovery may not be possible. The only thing that might give a clue would be pressure testing given these exact circumstances.

What it should tell you is to NEVER squad with this guy in the future if you value your body. He should be STRONGLY incentivized to shoot factory shells only and never reload again.

Outside of the primer, the loads are basically safe. The primer sub resulted in lower pressure and velocity, which offset the additional powder and likely brought it back to a wash. The Windjammer wad is also a poor choice for that hull.
I have told him in the past that Windjammers are not a good wad for that hull...He says that is the only wad he likes to use in any hull.
Some people just can not be changed. I hope he wakes up when I show him my results, but I feel he wont change a bit.
He might change as this spreads around no one will shoot with him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What kind of loader was he using?
Nebs,
Last I knew he had a Hornady 366 and also a MEC Grabber.
I will ask him when I give him the results of my findings.
I just can't picture how a live primer would end up in the powder on a 366 unless it was purposely put there or somehow got in the powder tube.
Makes ya wonder his reloading practices when at the bench.
Scares me,
Wadcrusher
 

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Many who reload shotgun shells keep the empties in open-top boxes or bins. It's easy to see how a spent or even a fresh primer could drop into one of the hulls. The solution is to either look into or turn crimp end down, each empty before placing it in the reloading machine. -Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
When this thread has run it's course, print it off and show it to him. If that isn't a Come to Jesus moment, wash your hands of him and avoid shooting with him (and consider informing others of your findings, for their safety).
Great Idea,
He is pretty Bull Headed about everything.
Maybe this will be a wake-up call or worse.
I called him and told him not to shoot them shells until I have a chance to talk with him.
Sad part is, he loaded 175 of them.
 

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I could see how a primer could hang up in the primer feed of a MEC and get deposited into the hull as the turret rotated. This would leave you with a primer IN the hull, instead of UNDER the hull, so one would assume you'd notice the primer missing when you went to reprime (as powder spilled from the hull as it rotated to station 3), but who knows, maybe he noticed the primer didn't drop into the cup and hand fed another one in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
He might have spilled a bunch of primers and one got into a hull or the powder. I can't see how a primer could migrate from the loader into a hull on either machine.
Good point, I guess my reloading practices are a little more organized.
Learned my lesson years ago swapping primers in a batch of .243 rounds.....ya don't mess with metallic like that.
 

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What did the crimp look like on the hull that contained the live primer?

I would think it would have made the stack height pretty tall and made a tented crimp?
 

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I could see how a primer could hang up in the primer feed of a MEC and get deposited into the hull as the turret rotated. This would leave you with a primer IN the hull, instead of UNDER the hull, so one would assume you'd notice the primer missing when you went to reprime (as powder spilled from the hull as it rotated to station 3), but who knows, maybe he noticed the primer didn't drop into the cup and hand fed another one in.
That sounds like something that has happened to all of us that reload - usually you train yourself to look at a couple of things consistently - one being primer dropping into its spot, second being that bar moves fully right then left.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
What did the crimp look like on the hull that contained the live primer?

I would think it would have made the stack height pretty tall and made a tented crimp?
Crimps were pretty bad on all the shells...the cases buckling were what caught my attention. I know the person that reloaded these, and I have witnessed bloopers, hollow shells, masking tape on shells, shot running out of shells you name it that he makes. Never really segregates shells by brand either or style either.
 

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You have insulted this guy a bit in this thread. Bull headed etc. I want to congratulate you. He was already given a Nickname at the club.Every club has one of these guys. I had to see what state you where from because I thought you where talking about our (*^%&##@$%%???) . The real question is why do you bother with him when he doesn't listen.
Shotshell loading is EASY. Hell even I can do it. Just Follow the recipe.
 
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